Author Topic: ASW / convoy ideas  (Read 4576 times)

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derdiktator

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ASW / convoy ideas
« on: September 12, 2007, 11:20:24 AM »
After (MANY!) games, it seems that the balance between German subs and British convoy defense seems to have a problem - not much of one, but just enough to give me pause to think about and discuss it here.

The possibility of the the Brits getting lucky with a few ASW hits early, or maybe not too early, but say while sub production is still being ramped up, tends to unduly discourage the Germans from pursuing an agressive sub production strategy.  I say this only after having observed many games.  Of course I've seen it go the other way where the Brits (usually me...) can't kill a sub for love or money. The system as it stands does average out game-to-game, but it seems to me that the game places an undue high risk to the Germans on even attempting a serious sub strategy.

Anyway, the above is just a complex way to say that I think the ASW die rolls need to be averaged out a bit better - keep the relative loss ratios the same, but increase the number of die rolls to make things more 'average'.

My thought is to basically cut sub and DD production costs in half, but double the probability of killing the subs and DD's. Subs would cost 2,2, DD's cost say 2,2,1, with subs doing 1D3 of convoy damage. Convoy-defending DD's kill subs on a 1-4, other defending ASW kill subs on a 1-3. Offensive attacks against subs hit on a 1-2.  In surface battles DD's hit on a 1, but only absorb 1/2 hit (ouch - I hate this last point). Maybe it might be better to have a sub-chaser unit, though I hate introducing yet a new unit type (maybe make it's cost a 2,2 or something and it has a zero surface attack ability?).

Anyway, I can't say I'm wild about this whole idea, but right now it's a huge risk for the Germans to consider persuing a strong sub strategy. A strong sub strategy requires building a good 8 to 12 subs at a minimum (I think).  The Brits getting a bit lucky on just a few early ASW die rolls puts a tremendous risk that the Germans cannot ameliorate over 'the long run' in that particular game, and which I think might be usefully addressed by averaging things out a bit better.

dd

RandR

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Re: ASW / convoy ideas
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 05:33:44 PM »
I've seen both sides of the U-boat vs anti-submarine force scenarios in different games and even during the same game where the die rolls were ALL one-sided for several turns even though 2 players were rolling the dice. Historically, the U-boat activity almost strangled the Allied war effort in Europe. So,  the game does mirror that possibility and depending upon production builds & the outcome of some of those battles will dictate the progress of the European theater.

John D.

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Re: ASW / convoy ideas
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2007, 04:29:06 AM »
Actually,
    In one of the games at Gen con, I was partnered with another player running Germany. I built subs for about 7-8 turns then sent out all 11 at once. THAT was effective! The subs paid for themselves after 4 turns of doing devasting damage! That was fun!  8)

John

Mark

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Re: ASW / convoy ideas
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2007, 05:49:35 AM »
We are planning on playtesting some new concepts and ideas for strategic warfare this weekend among other things (both strat bombing and naval strategic warfare) - I'll share some of the results here after we have hashed them out a bit.

RandR

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Re: ASW / convoy ideas
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2007, 12:04:10 PM »
Yep, I believe I was the proud recipient of that activity too. Early on , the subs just got picked off and were a minor irritant at best for the Allies.  Then the Axis dumped all of them into the Atlantic and the British, for love & money, couldn't hit the broad side of the Atlantic for about 3 turns.