Author Topic: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map  (Read 10087 times)

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Darkman

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1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« on: February 22, 2016, 05:09:39 AM »
Hey guys,

we did a 5-group playtest on the newest map. Sadly we only had a chance to play 4 full turns yet and still decide if we will finish the game or the germans will surrender.
The Axis are down to 26 VP and africa is lost, finnland was overrun by soviets and finnland only oslo is left (Most terrtories are soviet, just 1 is british)

Vichy will be attacked either next turn or the turn after. Maybe it was a mistake of the germans to attack russia in Spring 1941.
Axis will loose if they have less than 24 VP in Spring 1942 (Alternate VP Table).
They are about to loose Oslo, Kirkuk, Algiers & Tunis in the next 2 turns and the eastern front actually doesn't that power to push the soviets back. But we will see.

We had the following house rules.


- Alternate VP Table. (More Historical correct in the end game)
  I made it a very little harder for the allies to win early. So the game continues. Especially in 1944-45. Axis Table is untouched.
  It just bugs me axis loose if they have the territores they had in reality while the game should continue. They loose if they have less than historical.
 
- Finnland changes i proposed. (Germany can freely operate in Finnland). Germany didn't invest in troops in Finnland so there was a overrun.
- Germany is able to redeploy 1 unit per turn between Germany - Norway - Finnland through the swedish railways.
- The 4 new leaders are added  Hardegen, Heinrici , Chuikov & Guzzoni. (Hardegen died early on a raid, the others are not yet in game because we are now in 1942
- Bastico stays in the game and is later replaced by Guzzoni
- Port Kirkenes is added as a 5 Port in Finmark (Norway)
- Removed the Italian Convoy Zone that is already out of the game to avoid confusion

I made some pictures but not that many. I will upload some of them soon. I was too busy with explaning the game and the rules.


« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 09:33:16 AM by Darkman »

georgemak1

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 08:54:28 AM »
Never had a game be that bad for the axis, unless you get crushed in France, or wasnt be able to strategically attack Britain. What happened on this game? Which turn Italy declared war to the Allies?

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 10:44:02 AM »
Hi George . We played the 1941 scenario not 1939

Mark

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 01:46:17 AM »
Can you post you alternate VP table?  I think you are right in the Autumn 1944 VP level on and would like to see what you have.

In the 41 scenario, I think we usually attack Russia on the first (Spring) turn - will be interesting to understand what went wrong from your perspective that got the Germans behind.

What did the Allies do to drive the Axis quickly out of North Africa.  It as happened to me before (in fact, in our last game) - but I'm interested in how the allies managed to do it in your game.

Thanks,
Mark

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 07:04:43 AM »
Ok here is the alternate VP Table.

On the Eastern front i have to look at it myself too. I think in Spring 1941 the Germans did not have enough power to destroy the russian troops. The russian did a full retreat and there was no real combat until winter 1941. Then the russians did a full counteroffensive in normal and mech phase and surrounded and wiped out two german armies. The German Player was new to the game so he was going into the russian trap.

On the western front i played USA but it is not active in 1941 so i helped the english player by playing the British & Commonwealth troops in africa. He sent me a lot stuff so i strategically moved to Gibraltar and then 8 spaces again to cairo. The german Afrika Corps was able to beat tobruk very fast but pushed Forward too fast without any reinforcements. I attacked the Harbors with my fleets to cut off the supply of the axis Forces in africa and then i pushed them out of africa.

I will upload some pictures later

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 08:50:35 AM »
1941 Setup

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 08:53:50 AM »
Summer 1941 (Sorry didn't have good material on the turns)
Was just too busy to explain rules :-)

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 08:58:41 AM »
Start of Winter 1941 ( I forgot Autumn 1941  :-\ )
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 09:06:29 AM by Darkman »

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 09:02:03 AM »
Start of Winter 1941
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 09:06:42 AM by Darkman »

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 09:05:36 AM »
Start of Spring 1942

Mark

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 01:33:29 AM »
Your German player does not look like he took advantage of mech moves or mech attacks and is playing a very Axis&Allies style game.  The Eastern Front looks pretty bad for the Germans.

The Germans should be able to eliminate or encircle all of the Russian troops on the border before they have a chance to move and then mech move/attack into at least a couple rear area territories like Minsk, Odessa, Zhitomir, etc. . .  Summer should even open the Russian up more for mech moves, encirclements, and attacks. 

It looks to me that the German army kind of moved forward at an infantry pace WW I style invasion - that's going to be tough to win if Germany has not taken a lot of Soviet Territory by the end of Autumn.

Mark

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2016, 01:36:14 AM »
I like your VP table better than the current one. . I guess I have come around after playing a couple close end games in the last year.  Perhaps the only change I might make is changing the Allied Winter 1944 victory to 8 or less - but other than that keep it the way you have it.

Mark

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016, 05:54:38 AM »
Yeah it will be very hard for the germans in the current match. Both Axis players are new to this game tho let's see how it works :-)  They want to give it a try so we will continue this match

Darkman

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2016, 06:14:28 AM »
I like your VP table better than the current one. . I guess I have come around after playing a couple close end games in the last year.  Perhaps the only change I might make is changing the Allied Winter 1944 victory to 8 or less - but other than that keep it the way you have it.

Mark

Nice that you like my VP-Table. If you look on the historical Facts in Winter 1944 (Date November 26 - March 5)
The Axis only held Germany + Oslo. No Warsaw, no Budapest.  (Thats 6 in total)
So from that aspect i sometimes fight with my own that it should be 5 or less in Winter 1944 for the Allied.
If the Allied number is  8 (7 or less to win) you can say if Germany still has it's Homeland + oslo + Budapest  (7) and still loose the game earlier than it happend.

Increasing the number even more i think takes away the fight over Germany in that very last turns. You only need to attack Germany if you feel that you will loose in summer 1945 because Germany Helds 5 victory Points.

I know it is very hard to simulate the total collapse of the Germans from autumn 44 to spring 45.

I would like to have a whole new discussion about it one day :-)


Mark

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Re: 1941 Europe Playtest on new Map
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2016, 06:50:46 AM »
Agree that it is a tough call for Winter 1944.  I think the Axis also still had Milan until April 1945 - so that is 1 more VP - but 7 or 8 feels like the right number.

I guess it comes down to if you want to force the Axis to do desperate things late in the war - like hold Budapest at all costs or launch a Battle of the Bulge-like attack to try and take Antwerp rather than withdrawing and consolidating.