AA fire

[georgemak1]

So if I understood the rule correctly every time an air unit flies above an AA unit you roll against it. This happens only on the movement phase but not when they return from combat.

[Mark]

yes - on the movement phase, AA shoots at any plane flying through their territory (No AA fire on the land planes phase)

[georgemak1]

It makes really hard for the Allies to strat bomb the Ruhr, even with P-51s escorting the bombers if the Axis place AA guns around it. I kept getting bounced back  or getting hit very often. Another observation, its always safer if you escort each bomber with 2 fighters in case one of them gets a R against it, leaving the bomber without escort support.

[Mark]

I agree that the Axis can make this very difficult.  Do you have some ideas or a suggestion if some rules should change?  I would agree that AA can be very deadly - maybe too deadly -  in some cases.

Mark

[georgemak1]

I would personally drop the rule that AA guns fire at any air unit that flies over, I'm sure they were flying at a high enough altitude that AA guns weren't very effective. And I'm sure they dropped their altitude to bomb their targets. Very simple fix, you just build AA guns on the areas they really worth some PPs, the rest like the French coast will be easily defended with fighter cover, they barely worth anything anyways. I think this way makes a lot more sense, and it's more realistic

[Mark]

Would love to get Darkman's and John's perspective on that idea.

[Darkman]

Actually i thought over that some weeks ago aswell.. I think this rule came from Axis & Allies ?.. In newer Versions of Axis & allies only the territory where the strategic bombing takes place shoots with AA.. so i somehow like Georgemak Suggestion but you maybe need to alter the AA table then and or give the axis more AA from start.. or the territories some Base AA value...

Historically i would say the AA was effective aswell.

Losses on each flight varied enormously during the war. The acceptable rate was set around five per cent, and the average between 1942-44 was four per cent. This arithmetic is more brutal than it sounds. Less than one crew in eight would survive fifty missions. Half of all aircrew were lost before they had even completed ten missions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/air_war_bombers_01.shtml

[georgemak1]

Dark man has a good point, I would suggest every territory to have a generic AA value, their PP value multiplied by 2, plus whatever AA units you have on the territory. Ex. a 3PP territory, will add 6 points of AA to the existing AA units. War without Mercy uses a generic AA value depending how big the city was. This will eliminate all the dice rolling before you get to the target area too.

[Bobsalt]

Perhaps for strategic attacks AA could reduce effectiveness of an attack instead of killing units. Say that for each "hit" the defender gets to roll a die and subtract that amount from whatever damage the attack causes. Or say that for each AA "hit" a bomber's effectiveness is reduced by 50%.

AA shooting down heavy bombers in the game was never something I considered a major issue, but it is something that always bugged me a little.

[Mark]

Perhaps we will remove the fly over AA for the big game we are planning in October to see how it works out.

[Darkman]

PP value x2 for base AA is a very good Solution

[georgemak1]

My personal opinion is that by removing the rule will make AA less deadly which wasn't the case as we all know. By adapting the PP x2 AA rule will still keep AA effective but will eliminate the unrealistic situation by having your bomber being hit while flying at 20000 or 30000ft. Now if you build more factories on a territory that will not change the generic value of the territory, you will have to build more AA units to protect your investment. I think we should try it this way next month

[John D.]

Is this inherent AA value for strategic bombing only?

[georgemak1]

I would have to say yes, that will represent AA assets that were build around military targets, speeding up the game a bit too

[Darkman]

i wouldn't give up the idea that factory increase base AA aswell. Makes sense that increased industry get increased defense priority. But everything for Strategic Attacks only