Harbor DRM Bonus for Planes

[Darkman]

Mh shouldn't Submarines that moved into an Fortified Harbor not also get also a DRM Bonus?

[John D.]

Fortified Harbors do not protect against air attacks - only naval attacks. Only sub pens protect subs in port. Not sure if I answered your question

[Darkman]

Nah, sorry it was already late here :-)


I meant , if a submarine was able to go through an fortified Harbor ASW and attack the ships there. Aren't the ship easy targets like for the airplanes?

[John D.]

I totally agree.
Marcus - what do you think ?

Umm - no answer?

We had this discussion and I think you were fearful of something...

[Mark]

I guess this largely makes sense - I just did not want to promote it as a common type attack as it did not happen all that much after the Royal Oak disaster at Scapa Flow - harbor defenses were much improved. 

It makes sense to give the subs a bonus to torpedo a ship at harbor - but I think we would want to take a look at fortified port ASW defenses to discourage it from being a common practice.

[Darkman]

Yes i know what you feared Mark.

It's true that it would become a good option for submarines.
Maybe we would have to change the ASW for fortified ports to make this a rare but heroic option :-)

But on the other side i always felt when i got through the ASW, the chance to damage anything is just too low.

[Darkman]

I guess this largely makes sense - I just did not want to promote it as a common type attack as it did not happen all that much after the Royal Oak disaster at Scapa Flow - harbor defenses were much improved. 

It makes sense to give the subs a bonus to torpedo a ship at harbor - but I think we would want to take a look at fortified port ASW defenses to discourage it from being a common practice.

One question ? Would speak something against it that instead giving submarines a +2 DRM.. giving it rather a +2 in their combat value so they can double Hit something and sink ships ?
Even if it is very unlikley that a single submarine Comes through port asw and rolls a 1.
 
Planes have mostly higher values and can sink ships.. the single submarine unit that is allowed to go through can't actually.

[John D.]

That is really interesting. My only thought is that Battle ship groups abstractly represent multiple ships in the game - right? I think a sub group represents about 30 ships...

Are we referring to a situation that involved one sub and one battleship?

[Darkman]

Yea while this Is true , the Benfit of this heroic Action Is just too small when Looking at the Risk .. The Risk should be high but you should at least have a Chance To get a Lucky Shot :-)

[John D.]

Understood.

[Mark]

I think it is brutal/rewarding enough - not sure if we want subs to be sinking full squadrons of battleships in sneak port attacks. . .We have played a couple games with this rules now and while a rare tactic, it can be very rewarding.  In the last game, a French sub snuck into Taranto harbor and sunk the only Italian transport, paralyzing North Africa operations for 3 turns.  A sneak sub attack against damaged battleships and cruisers in port being repaired can be pretty devastating too.

[Darkman]

Ok thanks for Feedback guys