Operation Torch

[georgemak1]

Ive been practicing how to start the Operation Torch in Autumn 42, but im having a hard time setting everything up on time. US doesnt enter the war until the non-combat movement phase of Winter 41. Spring 42, it builds units with the 15pps from the previous turn, and then collects  the 70pp. It cant build units with this pps until Summer 42 turn, and place those builds on the map at the end of the Summer 42 turn. Autumn 42 they usually move everything down to Gilbratar, and the earliest you can sea invade North Africa is the Winter 42 turn. Are you guys doing something else to be able to invade North Africa in Autumn 42? The only other way, will be, dont send any lend lease to UK, or maybe minimum, and build the units in while still neutral. Do you guys build landing craft in with UK pps or US? I think buildig Landing craft in UK will work better(closer to Gilbratar). Thx in advance for any tips guys.

[Mark]

I think the US only had about 4 infantry divisions and 2 armored divisions involved in Torch (the British also had come units).  In game terms, that would really only be a handful of US units (like the ones they start with plus maybe 1-2 additional units that maybe are built in the Spring or earlier in the game).  I think it can be done, it is just not a sledgehammer blow - only 1-2 front line landed units via landing craft and some of them are British.

We have had games where Torch occurred as early as Spring 1942 - mainly British led and reinforced with Americans on the non-combat movement phase.

Mark

[georgemak1]

I see Mark, in my current game UK is really stretched to the limit, Rommel is in Alexandria and Cairo so they have no units to spare, plus in the earlier turns, German strategically attack England (air and naval) literally to the single digits for a couple of turns so all of the U.S. Income was going to lend lease. It's Winter 42 now, the Finnish was able to finally take Vuborg after I think 3 failed assaults, Leningrad is barely in supply through the northern part of Lake Ladoga, Germans are holding Veliki Luki, Smolensk, the areas around Leningrad, but not Kutno. In the south a strong Soviet counterattack, liberated Orel, Voronezh and Stalino, but Manstein and Hoth are getting ready for a strong counterattack with their heavy armor. In the previous turn Mainstein took Stalingrad but had to turn back to deal with the soviet attack, leaving only some infantry to hold the city. In the south Germans got really close on taking Grozny, literally there was only one Russian unit left after the battle, but now the Russian reinforced and preparing for a counterattack. A lot of fun so far, but I feel the allies are a little behind in shudule, we will see how it turns out

[Mark]

Sounds like the Allies are in trouble - the powerful strategic attacks against England may have tipped the balance too far for them to recover.  I think losing Alexandria and Cairo is a tough blow to bounce back from too - it can be very tough to take them back. 

Is France lightly defended?  Maybe the Allies can try and early invasion there?

What is the VP level? It sounds like the Germans may be getting close to a win

[georgemak1]

France is extremely light defended, only one fort unit and a AA on each of the coastal areas. Germans have 36 VPs at the moment, Russians are holding up pretty good, and I feel if Torch had started earlier It would take a lot of pressure off Egypt. Early invasion is being discussed, prob right after torch, and maximum lend lease to Russian, to get them motorized, that would move things quick in the east front. One of the things I like about this game, you can be behind but there is always opportunities to turn things around.

[John D.]

So true - so very true ...

[georgemak1]

One thing I keep doing wrong is start building ex. Medium tanks for the British in Winter 41. I always used to play as you start building in Winter 41, but I learnt from you guys in Arizona that you can start placing them in Winter 41. So you can actually start building a md tank in Autumn 41 and place it by Winter 41 since it's taking 2 turns to build one. There is nowhere I. The rule that clarifies anything like that, it would be nice if Mark can add a couple of sentences in the build units paragraph mentioning this, for the future newcomer players.

[Darkman]

Whaaat? Interesting... but totally confusing & stupid rule

 If this is true.. wouldn't it be clearer if the chart would reflect the time when you can build them rather than when you can place them ?

[Mark]

You can not start building medium armor until Winter 1941 with the Brits - not sure where you saw something different.

All build permissions are noted on the country cards: The brits can not start a medium armor until Winter 1941 turn and the US can not start a medium armor until 3 additional light armor have been built and placed on the board. 

I thought this was super clear, but I am editing the rules in the build section to spell it out more directly:

2.2.3 Certain units are listed on the country charts as being available after a certain turn or after a number of other units have been built and placed on the board.  Starting construction of these units is not allowed until the turn they are available (noted on the country card) or once other unit conditions are met. In some cases, the earlier version of this unit may no longer be built (but existing early versions that are on the board or on the production chart remain on the board or production chart – i.e. it does not ‘upgrade’ itself). A player may finish building the early version of a unit that is already started on the production chart. 

Example: In the Winter 1941 turn, the British may begin building medium armor units (spending production points to place them in the ‘1’ build box on the production chart), British light tanks on the board or on the production chart remain there (and may finish being built), but new light armor may not be placed on the build chart (as they are no longer available from Winter 1941 turn on the production chart).

[georgemak1]

That's how I interpreted this the first time I read the rules, but John told me that when we played our last game. Maybe he misunderstood my question or even worst I didn't understand him, I'm glad is all clear now.

[Mark]

John can be a confusing guy 

[John D.]

John can be a confusing guy 

I was probably in a daze, sitting in my bunker, occasionally ranting - creating my own reality...