Questions on newest Rulebook (2015)

[Darkman]

Hello guys!

Have some Question on the newest rulebook.

1) 7.1.3 Hunter killer attacks in a sea zone always precedes ASW and submarine attacks.
Q: So that means if a German submarine moves into a convoy Zone and wants to attack the convoy (by moving 6 spaces) and on a later chit draw an British destroyer moves into that Zone (tactically). Then the destroyer has the option to attack with the hunter killer attack before the convoy is attacked? Does the submarine fire back?
And if the submarines survives.. does the same destroyer helps in ASW defense for the convoy attack?

2) 7.1.4 If moving tactically rather than strategic movement, players can move through enemy sea zones and 'drop' ships to engage the enemy ships in the sea zone. 
Q: Can you do this also against submarines by moving in destroyers?

3) 18.0.7 Note: Only mechanized units may conduct a mechanized counter offensive – non-mechanized units may not mechanized counter-offensive.
Q: Means what? are the other units (non mechanized) in reserve ?  Are they targetable for the initial attacker in the first attack round or in the bonus attack round or in the following attack rounds?

4) Q: Not in the Rulebook: Do Transport planes stay in "air" with their infantry unit, until the landing phase if moving 3 spaces from friendly territory to another friend territory?

5) Q: Not in the Rulebook: Can planes participate \ attack in mechanized battles that particpated in airbase attacks /defense  & strategic attacks / defense in the normal phase?

6) 13.11.8. (see 10.9 above - up to 3 subs can participate in the attack).
Typo? I think it should now say up to 4 Subs ?

7) 17.7 Mixed naval combat and strategic attacks
Typo?  I think it should now say, resolve strategic attacks first rather than naval combat?

8)Q: Can Paratroopers & Mountain infantry also be converted into a fortification?
    I ask this in respect on your Finnmark(Norwegian) rules.
    I don't like to play with it because i don't like a special territory with limited access but it would be hard to attack.

9) Suggestion
Should submarines not get the equal or higher Bonus as airplanes when attacking ships in ports?
Maybe giving it a higher ASW risk if its too easy?

[Mark]

1) 7.1.3 Hunter killer attacks in a sea zone always precedes ASW and submarine attacks.
Q: So that means if a German submarine moves into a convoy Zone and wants to attack the convoy (by moving 6 spaces) and on a later chit draw an British destroyer moves into that Zone (tactically). Then the destroyer has the option to attack with the hunter killer attack before the convoy is attacked? Does the submarine fire back?
And if the submarines survives.. does the same destroyer helps in ASW defense for the convoy attack?

Yes, the destroyer has the option of conducting a HK attack against the Submarine.  The destroyer can either conduct a HK attack or defend the convoy with ASW - not both.  The destroyer forfeits its ASW/escort value when it conducts an HK attack (it is out chasing around subs rather than defending the convoy).

After the HK attack the sub can decide whether to do an strategic attack against the convoy zone or do a fleet attack against any ships in the sea zone.  Any destroyers/planes that did not HK attack may ASW convoy defense against the sub attack.

Rule 13.12.3 alludes to this, but needs to be more explicit on forfeiting ASW value.

[Mark]

2) 7.1.4 If moving tactically rather than strategic movement, players can move through enemy sea zones and 'drop' ships to engage the enemy ships in the sea zone.
Q: Can you do this also against submarines by moving in destroyers?

Yes, a player could move destroyers into a sea zone with enemy subs and then snap fire using the hunter-killer value when the enemy subs try to leave the space.

For example, The British could move several planes and destroyers into the bay of Biscay and 'snap-fire' (hunter killer attack) any German subs trying to move through the Bay of Biscay and out to the North Atlantic.

[Mark]

3) 18.0.7 Note: Only mechanized units may conduct a mechanized counter offensive – non-mechanized units may not mechanized counter-offensive.
Q: Means what? are the other units (non mechanized) in reserve ?  Are they targetable for the initial attacker in the first attack round or in the bonus attack round or in the following attack rounds?

So the intent of a counter-offenisve is to enable units to move that have not moved and are pinned by an enemy attack.  In he mech phase, the only things that can move are mech units.  non-mech units can not move.

So, if a player declares a counter-offensive on the mech phase, the only things that can participate in that counter-offensive as front line or support units are mech units.  Everything else has to be placed in reserve and can not move up to support/front line.

If the counter-offensive is successful, the (defending) mech units could then move and attack.  The non-mech units would still be stuck in the territory as they can not move in the mech phase.

If the counter-offensive is unsuccessful, the side declaring the counter-offensive revert to being the defenders for the second round of combat.  Non-mech units could then move up out of reserve and defend normally going forward.

[Darkman]

2) 7.1.4 If moving tactically rather than strategic movement, players can move through enemy sea zones and 'drop' ships to engage the enemy ships in the sea zone.
Q: Can you do this also against submarines by moving in destroyers?

Yes, a player could move destroyers into a sea zone with enemy subs and then snap fire using the hunter-killer value when the enemy subs try to leave the space.

For example, The British could move several planes and destroyers into the bay of Biscay and 'snap-fire' (hunter killer attack) any German subs trying to move through the Bay of Biscay and out to the North Atlantic.

Hey Mark
Sorry but that doesn't answer my question .. 7.1.4 Points out that you can drop ships when moving through a zone so you can block the enemy from snap fire at you.
My Question is , can you do this also against submarines.

[Mark]

I  am not sure I understand the question - but, dropping a ship does not prevent a submarine from snap firing if you move through the sea zone they occupy.  The rule is intended with respect to surface ships and surface combat.  Dropping a ship does not prevent a plane that is in the sea zone from bombing whichever whip it wants to from moving through the sea zone either.

Is that the question? Maybe an example would be helpful if not.

[Darkman]

Hey Mark i thought the same that this rule is only for surface vs surface ships but the rulebook doesn't execlude subs explicit that was the question yes ! Thank you ! 4, 5, 8 & 9 whenever you have time :-)

[Mark]

I am editing the rules as we go through these - so thanks for pointing out these inconsistencies and problems.  I'll post the updated rules here for your review before posting them officially. 

[Mark]

4) Q: Not in the Rulebook: Do Transport planes stay in "air" with their infantry unit, until the landing phase if moving 3 spaces from friendly territory to another friend territory?

The transport plane may either move up to 3 and 'land' in a friendly territory (and drop off its cargo) or stay in the air (with its cargo still aboard) (for example if it is over a sea zone or something).

[Mark]

5) Q: Not in the Rulebook: Can planes participate \ attack in mechanized battles that particpated in airbase attacks /defense  & strategic attacks / defense in the normal phase?

Yes - any plane that is adjacent to a mech attack (that is not returned or retreated) may move adjacent and participate in the mech phase (regardless of whether it was in a strategic attack or just moved during the regular movement phase).

[Mark]

6) 13.11.8. (see 10.9 above - up to 3 subs can participate in the attack).
Typo? I think it should now say up to 4 Subs ?

Yes - changing it to 4 subs throughout the rules - good catch.

7) 17.7 Mixed naval combat and strategic attacks Typo?  I think it should now say, resolve strategic attacks first rather than naval combat?

Ys - you are correct - changing in the text.

8)Q: Can Paratroopers & Mountain infantry also be converted into a fortification?

Yes - any infantry type unit should be allowed to fort down

9) Suggestion: Should submarines not get the equal or higher Bonus as airplanes when attacking ships in ports?
Maybe giving it a higher ASW risk if its too easy?

Agree - will change in the rules and give subs attacking ports a -2 modifier like planes.  I think I will increase the ASW value of a port however and only allow 1 sub to run the port defenses to make a port attack.

[Mark]

Darkman -
Take a look at these edited rules and let me know if they address the things you have brought up.  If the bases are covered, I'll post it to the forum and remove the last version of the rules.

[Darkman]

Mark

Will do , any Chance you can mark all changes you did in yellow please?

Maybe

- Italy starts the 1939 game neutral. Italy’s production points are halved until it declares war to the allies.
- And maybe add the asw rules for the XXI submarine to the the special unit rules
- Change the port attack asw maybe on a value 16 rather than a new 4/7 rule  or reflect it on the naval chart.

[Mark]

OK - I think I highlighted most of the text I changed

[Darkman]

Ok Mark,

the changes are fine i think.

I have another question i can't find an answer in the rulebook.

a) When do i have to decide that a ship is in port or outside? Let say a transports unloads his cargo in a territory on the movement phase Can he instantly decide to go into any port within the same sea zones?


Maybe you want to look at this

- 26.0 And maybe add the asw rules for the XXI submarine to the the special unit rules
- 26.16 Replenishment Ship Rules are differnt on Europe \ Asia Rulebook. Maybe you want to fix it with the final rules on this
- 27.6 Italy starts the 1939 game neutral. Italy’s production points are halved until it declares war to the allies.
- Change the port attack asw maybe on a value 16 rather than a new 4/7 rule  or reflect it better on the naval chart.

- Maybe change the port attack for submarines rule so they can at least sink a Ship (2-Hits)  ? .. historically "prien" sank the royal oak and damaged another ship with his uboat.
  ( I would say it should have a higher damage than a plane.. or at least not weaker than a plane)

- Think again about the Finland rules. It's very easy for the Soviets to put some Bombers into Murmansk and bomb every turn on Norway & finland while the germans can't do anything  against it
  Historically the germans had mountain & inf divisions there but also 88 flaks (petsamo & Helsinki) and a  fighter \ bombers squadrons in finland

I would say revert either the old rule or my rule ;-) http://www.ww2wargame.com/forum/index.php?topic=515.msg5212#msg5212