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Yoper

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Another Europe only '39 game
« on: February 01, 2013, 01:48:01 AM »
Well, the tables are turned and the action has started.

Last week we began a new game that has me as the baddies and Eric as the capitalist dogs/communist slugs.

I went light on Poland and paid for it with not only losing a large portion of the attacking infantry, but I didn't take Warsaw!  We have never had that happen and had to read up on what the consequences were. 

Then the lack of units on the Western front meant that the Fall of France was delayed until the Summer '40 turn.  We are playing with an alternate Fall of France rule that states,

France falls if:
- The Axis control 4 France (continental production) territories at the end of an Axis turn.  (Territories must be in supply.)
- The Axis control 3 France territories at the end of an Allied turn.
- The Axis have 5 (or more) land units in Paris at the end of an Axis turn.

I didn't bring in the Italians yet (we got through 5 turns) simply because I didn't need them to take a territory in France and I didn't want to give the French/UK a chance to suicide into the Italian fleet.  Also, I was pushing an Italian factory so they hadn't put out any extra units to help their cause.  Now I can reset them and think about Yugoslavia and Greece to help their PPs and morale.

Part of Germany's lack of land units early on is the production choice of two factories and a quick start on subs.  Must get my own production ramped up and set up the war in the Atlantic to kill the UK production.

Turn 6 tonight with cleaning up the Balkans, and setting the stage for Eastern Front carnage.

Yoper

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Re: Another Europe only '39 game
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 02:10:38 AM »
We got through another 5 turns!  It's amazing what can happen when there are only two players and the big theaters of action haven't cranked up.

The Germans have finally gotten back on an even keel on the Eastern front but are holding to see what the Soviets may do.  Since it will be the Axis turn Spring '42, I may have to attack anyway.  The Soviets pulled back and aren't going to pull anymore cards.  Interesting dynamic playing out right now.

Even though I have pushed the sub production consistently, it has been a dismal failure.  While having tied up a generous amount of forces, it hasn't hit for anywhere near enough convoy damage.  I have only gone over the 15 PPs limit twice in ten turns of action.  As such, the UK has had a high amount of PPs to work with and have even put out a factory in Canada! 

The Italians finally came into the game with an attack on Greece, but multiple attempts to take Crete, one by themselves and one with German help have been stymied.  Back and forth action in the Tobruk area has also occured.  A delicate balance has been happening in the Med and I am fighting just to keep the Italians out of the Level 3 restrictions.

The US is far from entering the game since the Axis have underperformed on all fronts, but that is exactly the point of the optional entry system.  We came up with an adjusted roll to simulate the Japanese portion of the US chart (1-4 gives a card to the US).  But Eric has failed that roll at least 6 of the 10 turns.  So that is another interesting twist.

Action will resume on the 15th of February.  Now that we are getting into the meat of the action, maybe things will go better for me.  No more neutrals to kick my butt!  Last week the little guys continued their rein of terror upon my units.  The Greeks, the Norwegians, and the Yugoslavians all took out more than their share of units.  That continued the trend from the first night when the Poles, the Belgiums, and the Danes all had good showings against the Germans.


m7574

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Re: Another Europe only '39 game
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 06:59:54 AM »
You seem to be really factory-happy.  It may help you later in the game so lets hope you survive until later in the game.  The Italian factory seems overly ambitious.   Pre-war Italy only spends 7 PP's a turn.  If you are building a factory you aren't building any fts.  Maxing your ftr purchases always seemed to be paramount in our games.

Yoper

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Re: Another Europe only '39 game
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 09:16:29 AM »
Yes, a factory does suck up the early Italian PPs but then they are operating in the low 20s after they are in the war.  It more than makes up for that early hit on your production.

The most you would get is two early war fighters and a couple of infantry.  Or a transport and a couple of land units.  I'll take the extra five PPs a turn for the rest of the game instead.

I am a bit behind on ftr numbers versus the Allies, but that is more a product of the early loses in France.  I am working through a game here at home and it is a real wonder what doing well against the Poles and the other early neutrals can do for your force mix later.  Having overwhelming numbers on the western front against the French makes for an easier time there and almost untenable situation for France to not collapse quickly.

That then translates into all the other following moves on the continent have much more momentum.  The game I am playing with Eric is taking a different tack simply because I am now just getting to a comfortable level of forces on the eastern front.  And I am stalling not to give the extra two cards to the US for my having attacked the USSR.

Now I really need to look at the VP situation and how we are dealing with as it relates to alternate entry system, but that shouldn't be too big a problem to reconcile.  It may be that the VP "clock" shouldn't start ticking until the US is in the game and that the whole game shlould then run longer than the normal 25 turns.

m7574

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Re: Another Europe only '39 game
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 01:53:34 PM »
I just never felt factories were worth it.  It takes 5 turns after it is built to break even cost-wise.   And you don't have the benefit of using the pieces you would have purchased in that time.  By the time that factory has paid for itself the allies will start bombing it as well.  Of coarse you can defend it with ftrs, but thats ftrs that could be stationed elsewhere. 

Anyways, thats my take. 

My gaming partner never builds them either.  I for one would rather he built a factory than those damn italian fts.  The allies cannot effectively go on the offensive until they have air superiority.  Or at least reached parity.  Without those Italian ftrs the allies can make their move a turn or two sooner.  Thats big, IMO.

I'll give you credit though, you would be a much more 'fun' axis opponent than scott.  His gameplan is to go balls-out at Russia, little or no pressure on Africa.  Once he pushes Russia back to the Volga he begins a slow withdrawl and bunkers down in Europe.  He gets a dozen inf to Libya and forts them down, forts Norway and builds a ton of 88's.  Japan doesn't get aggressive in the pacific at all.  He puts the pressure on India and sometimes Perth.  The 'Perth manuever' is a nasty one.  Its almost impossible to crack japan's defenses if they have preserved their airfoce late in the game.  You can never get enough carriers to get close to Manila.  Or Tokyo.  He plays for the win in 1944/45.  Until recently he has been very successful.

Yoper

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Re: Another Europe only '39 game
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 03:17:14 AM »
You are right in that it takes a while for the factories to pay off, but if you do it in the first four or five turns you then have them contributing to your economy for the last 15 turns of the game.  So the loss of the money for units for four turns is then repaid over the next five and everything after that is gravy! 

I do understand though the constant fear that drives the want for immediate gratification.  Those PPs would look good as units right now instead of sitting on the production chart for multiple turns.  Especially when things aren't going well for you on the game board!!!

As for your other concern, part of what you are dealing with are the standard rules for fighters vs. naval units. 

We have changed the naval AA specifically based on the problems you are describing.  Allied naval units couldn't even think to operate in the Med until they had a certain amount of CVs and/or land based air covering it. 

We felt that it was just too much and modified the situation to make it easier for a large surface naval task force to operate in places that it just couldn't under the original rules. 

The extra abort AA shots that we built into the system help to even up the odds but still allow for some dynamic actions to occur.  The air units will still attack a large fleet because they know that they can hurt transports coming in for an amphib.  And they aren't too bothered by the other non-targeted units since any hit by them is just an abort- not a kill.  The attacker will go after certain moves that he wouldn't normally do since he can better defend his fleet with the volume of flak that he is putting up.

It always seemed silly that the defending surface ships would just sit there and do nothing while the transports were just chewed up by the responding fighters. 

m7574

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Re: Another Europe only '39 game
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 05:45:46 AM »
we have incorporated your 'abort' shots to our game as well.  Only Battleships may provide the abort shots.  In order to make the med playable with airbase rules we place an airbase '3' on all territories that touch the med, which would otherwise give maximum air capacity.  Examples: Sicily, Merseille.  Otherwise the Allies would NEVER be able to enter the western med.

It is so important for the axis to get off to a strong start.  Factory purchases hinder that.  I suppose if France makes a tactical mistake and Germany takes her out with little casualties one could make room for factory purchases. 

Yoper

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Re: Another Europe only '39 game
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2013, 01:38:21 AM »
I would suggest that your air heavy strategy is leaving an opening somewhere else in the game.  The Germans are precariously balanced PP wise that any overbuild in one are is bound to leave them vulnerable in another- be it from the dice or from the proper counter.

As for only using the abort AA for the BBs, a bullet is a bullet is a bullet.  Whether it comes for a tug boat or a BB, one piece of lead hitting the radiator or a hydraulic line of an aircraft will sending it limping home.

The naval AA only really has its full effect when an attacking air force has to run the gambit of say 11 or 12 abort shots before getting to shoot at the targets.  And if the target is a warship, then that unit get to roll kill shots.  So an air attack can quickly get a couple of units sent home reducing its capability accordingly.