Author Topic: basic game results  (Read 24870 times)

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Mark

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2012, 03:37:48 PM »
I'm surprised Russia always falls apart for the Allies in your games.  Do the Germans not take any casualties early on in France or commit anything to the Med?  Maybe the problem with the games you have had have less to do with Russia and more to do with Allied actions in 1939-1941?  The Allies should mop up the Med if the Germans do not put adequate resources there.  Do the Germans divert any of their production to u-boats or is it all out tanks and plans for Russia?

What turn does France typically fall in your games?  What kind of casualties do the Germans take in France?  Can you give me a picture of what happens in the North Atlantic and the Med?

Sorry, we have just had very different results over the years and I am trying to understand the root cause of consistent Allied defeats in your games.

Yoper

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2012, 01:37:46 AM »
The UK has to get back into the Med and apply pressure to the Italians and Southern Europe enough to drag German resources back to the West.

If you don't apply that pressure, then the Soviets are doomed.

m7574

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2012, 05:17:11 AM »
german air protects the Italian fleet.  No German resources are spent on subs or the med otherwise.  He just stacks Libya so as to not roll for Italian capitulation.  Max build the mech and armor and ftrs.  bombers when he can.  Italy pops out a ftr or a bomber every turn. 

Russia is forced to withdraw or be encircled, or if the reg inf catch up, get smoked in an attack.   I am pretty sure my problem is not making the german player pay in other theaters.  I have gone heavy in Africa and failed a few times. 

We were both top ranked axis and allies players in the clubs so its not like one of us is a lot better than the other.  We've been doing this stuff for YEARS.   We ALWAYS find the loopholes in games and find ways to exploit them. 

I am not saying the game cannot be won by the allies.  won't concede that.  But it is odd that russia can get trampled so badly. 

m7574

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2012, 05:22:22 AM »
and yes, france has gone poorly for the allies lately.  I've capitulated in the spring or 40, two out of the last three games :/

The game they survived until the Fall I did not kill enough Germans.  I figure you need to kill about 15 germans in the defense of France and Belgium.  We have started a new game, France surrendered in the summer and I did kill over 15 germans this time around :)  we'll see how this goes. 

John D.

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2012, 06:48:38 AM »
Looking forward to hear about Allied exploits this time! (no offense to the Axis)

m7574

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2012, 09:50:59 AM »
I think the difference in our games and what you have found in your games is Scott's view of the "most likely path to an axis victory".   Scot is a "maximum force" kind of player who will efficiently muster the maximum available force to overcome one target while conceding just about anything else on other fronts.  He feels Africa is waste of resources and is a distraction for the real goal.  No subs, no airbases, no amphib attacks.   the axis can hold their ground well enough until the USA is into the war.  At that point Germany starts putting all their resources into defending vs the Western allies.  With Russian territories fueling the german war machine, they rival the USA economically. 

John D.

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2012, 03:19:49 PM »
Well  - I love challenges! We tried to break the game - maybe you guys can do it. One extreme strategy deserves another...

m7574

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2012, 05:11:46 AM »
I hat that phrase.  "break the game".   Its such a harsh indictment.  Even if the russia crush proves unstopable, we can always make house rules to make the game playable.  We like this game a lot.

John D.

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2012, 01:59:20 PM »
Fair enough! Lets see how the Allies fare!

Yoper

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2012, 03:35:56 AM »
Yes, "break the game" implies a flaw in the base mechanics. 

Pushing the boundaries is more of an extension of the playtesting.  We played enough to bring up different ways of winning or we found loopholes that the original guys hadn't thought of or thought viable.  That is where rules refinements and set up changes then come in handy.  Anything that can be modified and still allows the game to be played is what you want. 

It is when you find a mechanism that so wrecks the playout that you have truly broken the game.  I don't think that you are at that point.

m7574

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2012, 02:23:49 PM »
one rule change we agreed is necessary is making it harder for the Axis to get Turkey and Sweden.  Getting those two cheaply just ruins the game.  In our games, in order for Turkey to join the Axis Baku or Cairo must fall or reduce the Soviet forces on the border.  Otherwise a "1" roll only yields the economic PP points but not the armies or terrirory control.  A "1" for Sweden yields the other two PP's.  To aquire their armies London must fall.

Yoper

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2012, 04:58:28 AM »
Yes, we pushed for the one optional rule that makes those large neutrals a two step process to acquire.

Quote
Spanish and Turkish War Reluctance
Axis minors Turkey and Spain do not immediately join the Axis upon successfully rolling a trigger entry for them. Instead, it takes two successful trigger rolls to bring Spain or Turkey into the war. On the first successful trigger roll, Spain or Turkey become “pro-Axis” neutrals and contribute half of their production points to Germany rounded up (like Sweden) every turn. Upon the second successful trigger roll, Spain or Turkey join the Axis as a regular Axis minor ally as discussed above.

John D.

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Re: basic game results
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2012, 10:52:13 AM »
We did this with with the advanced game