First game of struggle last weekend....

[Mark]

I usually recall China getting pounded by the Japanese early.  John would usually bomb my production down to next to nothing and kill off all of the easier to destroy Chinese units he could before going to war with  the US.  Every Japanese plan on the board would be in China bombing the hell out of me until 1941.  Not sure why China is so much tougher in your games.

But, if you guys want to make tweaks to balance things out for your group, you should play around with it.  When we play, usually Germany can make short work of France in Spring or Summer.  I guess may be 1 game in 6 France turns into a German disaster in terms of losses. 

[m7574]

Britain is sending the house to France.  The goal is to make Germany attack a large stack.  No freebee capitulation.   Britain can get at least 5 units to France every turn if they utilize air transport.   Even more after the first turn.   Add to that a maximum RAF build every other turn and the Allies can gain air superiority.   UK does not need to worry about german bombing and a major u-boat campaign until after France falls.  Germany must use all resources to taking out the French or risk a game losing debacle.   Italy has to be very careful to stay out of the war long enough for German aircraft to cover the fleet.  With France adding 4inf, 1ATG or an AA gun every turn, France is tough.  Sure Germany can overwhelm them eventually, but they take losses.  Sometimes heavy, especially the luftwaffe.

The USA makes sure to send economic aid to China every turn.  Yes, the Chineese are holed up in the mountains until 1942, but with a stack approaching 30inf.  I admit the Japs have neglected to bomb China.  That is one area where the japs can improve.  I suppose if the bombing is carried out from the start, China will be reduced by 6-8 inf by 1942.  That is good news.  So there is a little promise there.

After France falls the UK, taking advantage of US lend lease is able to really put heat on Italy.  They are able to supply Cairo with enough ground forces to at least hold the Axis at bay most of the time.  I was able to get into the Middle East one game but that was due in large part to poor Allied play.

One rule we played with last game was starting the Summer 1940, the French capitulation role gets another +1, and increases every turn.  This encourages France to make an attack or risk capitulating easily.   France is also encouraged to split their forces early to defend multiple territories allowing Germany overwhelming odds on one territory at a time as well.  Because if France is a debacle, the rest of the game is pretty much decided.

Thanks for all the replies guys. 

We are both very skilled Axis and Allies players, being at or near the top of the online clubs in our hay-day.   So we're not chumps.  I admit there are certainly areas we may be neglecting to manipulte to its full advantage as we are pretty new to this game.  But it sure does appear dicey for the Axis to survive to 1943.

[Yoper]

I am not trying to denigrate you or your play at all.  I just saying that sometimes you can miss something that may allow for a different play out.

I know that that has happen to me many a time.  All it takes is for some one new to show up, do something totally different, and you end up slapping your forehead with great gusto!  One of those "How did I miss that!" moments.

Or maybe we all are missing something and it would be us that ends up slapping our foreheads!  Actually, I would turn around and slap Mark's forehead.  He is the designer after all!

[m7574]

I wasn't being defensive, I understand and agree.  Was just trying to convey that we're pretty good at wargames.

Been through the rules looking to see what we might have missed.  One could say that Germany may be spending too many resources towards Barbarossa.  But much less commitment and barbarossa doesn't hardly get off the ground.  I think fewer inf and more aircraft are required in my purchases, however.

I've read where it has been said that its a risk for the UK to defend France with too much gusto.  I don't see it.  Where are the reprocutions?  London could not be safer.

maybe we just need to bid for the axis then peel things back if the Axis play gets better.

[Mark]

Perhaps your plan of bidding for your next game or two is a good one. 

As the Germans, are you building all-out to kill France for the first two turns?  I would max fighter builds if you are not.  Are you hitting Belgium in the Winter turn?  Sometimes the Italians can pitch in by blocking the British fleet with a destroyer or something and hit France from the South.  I have also seen the Germans rail units into Northern Italy to help a Southern Blitzkrieg of France in some games.  I'm sure you guys have tried all of this, but just some ways I have seen the Axis knock out France quickly.

For the Japanese, I think it is key to go all out against the Chinese early and bomb their production while you are at it.  The Japanese have plenty of planes to really pound the Chinese before they flip their air over to the Pacific.

Interested in hearing how the bidding goes - please keep us in the loop.

[Doc Barber]

In my decades of playing several versions of A&A, I think that a 2 player game really has a tendency to favor the Allies.  Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin did not agree on everything.  I've always noticed a little more success for the Axis in a 5 player game.  If "One of these kids is doing his own thing", for the Axis it's no big whoop, but I've seen (and participated!) in a lot of Allied Grand Strategic Arguments.  Which is probably a helluva lot closer to actual history.

[m7574]

Yes, Gemany is going into Belgium in the winter.  Huge army there and placements int the Saar to put a lot of heat on the Maginot.  The allies elect to defend it and the Germans best option is to attack it, and without air superiority as The UK gets alot of air power to Paris on the winter turn.  It can be bloody which really hurts.  The first 7 hits just get soaked up by the forts and the allied army withdraws to Paris as soon as its no longet in their best interest to stay.

I am thinking the bid will probably be a Factory on Japan's card, maybe line 2.  Add a sub and a couple aircraft to germany's 1 box.  Then they are ready for the winter turn. See where that gets us.  I just want to see the axis get to a point where 28VP's by 1942 is a given.  Not 50/50.   Every game should make it to 1942 and beyond.

[Mark]

How do the Allies get air superiority so fast?  If the British start their planes in the Autumn turn, then they get placed in the UK in Winter.  If the Germans max build fighters in Autumn, and place them in Winter then they can be used in Spring while the British planes are still out of range.  Why do the Germans go direct after the Maginot line and not through Northern France to Paris? Or Calais and then on to Brittany in order to force a roll?  Sorry, I know you guys are good players, just want to understand the dynamics that have made the invasion of France such a tough nut to crack in your games.  What are the first two rounds of builds that the Allies and the Axis typically produce?

[John D.]

Interesting. I don't recall ever seeing the Maginot line attacked in any game. I feel like we are missing something.

[m7574]

If the Germans move into Northern France they must split their army to keep the Allies from attacking Belgium and cutting off the army that has advanced.  With the UK sending maximum forces to France, a split German force can be vulnerable.

With Germany I had not been doing max ftr builds, and that may be a mistake.  With the large Allied army in France and the need for numbers later in Barbarossa I had always felt it was more important to try to max build infantry.  I will certainly amend that from here forward.   I am not sure if a max ftr build is ideal though, as the allies can add as many inf per turn to France as the Germans are building.  And if the Allies are using air transport, two inf can get right to Paris without a stop over in Normandy or Calais.

The attack on the Maginot is not a direct attact from the Saar only.  The majority comes down from Belgium.  The Germans have the option of splitting their army, moving into Calais, and keepeng forces in Belgium to prevent being cut off.   The allied player leaves the maginot light, but strong enough to inflict some serious casualties and pull back.

The Allies don't need to win any battle.  Just inflict casualties.   French units are taken off first, especially when it comes to aircraft.

Anyways, I have been able to unlock the french defense.  I've actually been lucky with capitualtion rolls every time.   A lot of this input is based on a "what if I hadn't been so fortunate" point of view.  The 28VP's have been contested every game.  Its been very close.  Had I not recieved the capitulation rolls I would most likely have been beaten.

This has led to a problem for my play partner.  He claims the Allies should win every time with competent play and has lost interest.  I have had a hard time proving otherwise.

[Mark]

I would go with the bid process you suggested so that you both feel the game is more balanced.  I would hate for you to keep pounding your heads in a wall and lose interest.   

Someday I hope to play you guys at Origins or somewhere -

[John D.]

Yes - I agree - go with what you think is more balanced- it is hard to give input without seeing more of what is happening. One thing with playing the Axis over a full game is the adjustment that eventually takes  place of going from the offensive to the defensive - the Axis player needs to read the game ahead of time and begin making the adjustments a couple turns in advance.

[Yoper]

We could really take care of this if you guys would just show up here in Detroit again. 

I am right in the middle.  You from Boston and m7574 from Cedar Rapids.  I should have the bathroom in the basement working by St. Patty's day (we host a big party) and there is plenty of sleeping space available down there too.

[John D.]

That's interesting. Well right now we are very close to committing to Origins! We are trying to work out solid logistics as we may have a sizable group coming from New England and Mark is working on flying in from Asia...

[Yoper]

That's great!  It will be interesting to see what kind of turn out they end up with on the new (earlier) date.

If you are going then I will give it a look as to what may be possible for my (or the other guys) attending.