First game of struggle last weekend....

[Yoper]

Yes, the all Axis/all Allies game turn is much nicer to play with.  It takes care of a lot of "goofiness" that is really showing up in the latest A&A version. 

The strategic and normal movement all at the same time does take some different thinking- offensively and defensively.  Then add in mech attacks and the ability for the defender to retreat and you really get a different experience!

And yes, once all the major combatants are in the game, it can take a long time to get through a game turn.  Even with us having two players to a side we will still end up only getting in two and a half or three game turns in during our weekly Friday night sessions.  That is quite variable at times based on the amount of combat is occurring. 

It can get a bit uneven too depending on how you split up the nations on either side.  But that doesn't seem to be your issue, with only two players.

[John D.]

Paradrop in? My wife is not going to be happy...

[m7574]

I think I may make a turn system to keep thing flowing better.

1)  Germany, Italy
2)  Russia
3)  Japan
4)  UK, USA, France

This will work at least until Russia and Japan are at war. 

I have some vacation time to burn up.  Maybe if you guys have some free time I could come to you Yope.

[Yoper]

I think I may make a turn system to keep thing flowing better.

1)  Germany, Italy
2)  Russia
3)  Japan
4)  UK, USA, France

This will work at least until Russia and Japan are at war. 

What about China?    We normally give it to USSR player (along with France) to give them something to do early on in the game.

I have some vacation time to burn up.  Maybe if you guys have some free time I could come to you Yope.

We aren't playing right now, but may get back to it soon.  We have done the full weekend thing before with the Bostonians flying in for the fighting.  We could try to plan something later into the spring- March timeframe or so.  I have a room in the basement (that I am 75% done remodeling) and I could probably talk my guys into coming to my place for the game instead of at our normal meeting place (Eric's house is now the Friday night venue).

Actually, a good thing to do is try to plan for a chance to play at a place like Origins or Gen Con Indy.  Especially, if the Bostonians get back on the convention trail. 

[John D.]

Mark and I will probably try to make a con this summer...

[qxxx]

Its been a while since i have been on the boards, changed the board look.

i wont hold by breath on the conventions for mark or john   lol

if they can make origins, I think i will be there with reaper

Yall know my 2cents worth -- the basic rules favor the allies 90% of the time.

M7574 you can come to Dallas and play at ConDFW, A-KON, Fencon, Board game geek con, where i run the game at the local conventions, with my rule tweaks

kenb

[Doc Barber]

After you've played '39 a few times, try '41.  I think that gives the Axis a better chance.  At '41 setup you can see what an idiot Comrade Stalin was, just before you stick it to 'em!  An experienced Allied player would never leave such an open mess.  Also, if you are the Axis player and you have a run of bad luck before '41, you are even more hosed.  Welcome to the best A&A club.

[John D.]

You make very good points!

[m7574]

We gave it another go this last weekend.   

It looks like the Axis will get to 28VP in 1942.  But geez, it doesn't look good to hold it.   Japan elected not to build a factory this game.   China is out of control despite building at least 3jap inf per turn.  I think my mistake here has been not contesting allied aid to china.  Can the Japs do this before being at war with UK/US?  They'd have to bomb Burma.

Italy is completely neutered.   Kicked out of Africa.   Heavy Luftwaffe casualties in France and then vs the UK fleet in the Med.   UK just seems to have their way when they should be on the ropes.

Taking france proves to be a terrible pain in the azz when the UK sends max units to defend it.  The RAF is also able to overtake the Luftwaffe very early in the game, and before the Battle of Brittain.

There seems to be very little incentive for the UK to even try to defend London.  Easy to recapture, no penalty for the UK if it happens.   The UK is very difficult to beat down.   They just have so much money.....   and with the Germans taking heavy air casualties to take out France, the Italian fleet is pretty much screwed.  If they go to war before the luftwaffe is able to be in position to defend the Italian fleet, Africa is lost.

I have a few ideas to improve the Axis play from here on, but it still looks ugly for the axis.  Mostly because it seems like there is more room for allied play to become more aggressive and effective.   I guess I am just suprised you guys find the axis with good odds to even make it to 1943. 

[Mark]

The Axis probably are not going to take any more VPs after 1943, but they have a good chance to hang on to enough to still win the game.  Often the Allies have a lot of ground to take and they have to work against the clock.

[Yoper]

The UK is the main target in the early game.  If they can keep things together, then yes the Axis are in trouble.

The Axis would like to get to Cairo and break out into the Middle East.  That can only realistically happen if they are first highly successful in the Atlantic.  The subs must do enough to the UK economy such that the UK can't build up enough in the Egypt.

That will also put the UK behind in their building up of defenses in the Pacific.  Which the rapidly expanding Japanese can capitalize on.

The German production schedule is something to analyze if you want the optimal amount of units ready for your push into vast Soviet land areas.  France must fall as fast as possible so that you have the time to turn and take the Balkans.  The finally have the troops in position to go against USSR.  The timetable is tight if you are playing the scripted out of the box rules. 

There is some leeway in the game if you use the optional entry rules, but we still feel that the USSR chart is too scripted because it is based on what the Soviets themselves do instead of being dependent on the actions of the Axis.

No matter how you play it, the game is ultimately a timed VP challenge when it is played by competent people on both sides.  You will only get an Axis victory if something goes seriously haywire on the part of the Allies.

[m7574]

The issue we have is that a competent Allied player SHOULD win the game in 1942.  That is not much of a game.  Whats the fun in that? 

The UK can send so much stuff to France that germany takes a major hit unless they get a fortunate capitulation diceroll.   When that happens Germany can make a good drive deep into Russia, and perhaps get and hold enough VP to make it to 1943. 

Japan has their hand full with China.  China can have a stack of nearly 30inf ready to bust out when japan peels inf off for their winter '41 offensive.  What a nightmare China becomes.

So am I right to understand their needs to be some bidding help or rule adjustments for a more evenly matched game?  That is what it looks like to me.  That is fine.  I'm OK with that.  We are getting a little tired of beating our head against the wall against the Allies.  To be fair, the Axis have got into 1943, but it was thanks to a few Allied blunders.  Even so, we started over each time trying to prove the Axis could make a run at it even-up. 

[John D.]

Yoper - what is your take on the Axis/Allied balance? I don't recall things being so lop sided. Is the Axis player very aggressive?

[Yoper]

I can't tell what is happening until I see what they are doing.

Our early play was almost always the direct opposite of what they are reporting.  If you remember from our game sessions that we posted, we kept having the game blow up with the Axis shooting out into the Middle East.   Then the Japanese jumping into the action to complete the domination by taking the rest of the needed VPs for the win. 

We had the shifting of Mech units away from Poland down to a fine art such that we could have France taken care of by the end of the Spring '40 Turn.  Which then set up the time to reposition for the Summer '41 turn of Barbarossa.

And if things went well in the Atlantic and the Middle East, the Barbarossa attack became secondary since German and Italian units would be in Persia, Turkey may have gone their way, and now India is threatened on two fronts.

As for China, as long as you maintain enough Japanese units to in key spots you force the Chinese to stay back in the mountains defending their ICs.  Meanwhile, you are working your way into India, DEI, Philippines, etc.

Again, it is one of the situations where you need to play some other people to get an idea of what is possible. 

[John D.]

Yes - I recall during some playtests early on - we had the Axis winning more frequently and we had to balance a few things out. I recall the Allies having a position of less forgiveness if something went awry. I guess I would need to see the action...