First game of struggle last weekend....

[m7574]

The map showed up in the mail Saturday about 1pm.  It was a Chrismas miracle!  LOL.  We got it set up and went over some gameplay details and got some gaming in yesterday -about 8hrs worth. 
 
There are a few questions I have reguarding the game balance.
 
1) unit placement:  Russia can effectively place 20 newly purchased units and rail 20 more to any given production center.  Holy crap!  How does Germany ever take more than one major VP city in Russia?   A good Russian player seems to be able to handle the Whermacht every time.
 
2) Japan has no money!  Until they DoW the Western Allies, they are stuck around 20.  They don't seem able to ever get above 40. 
 
It has only been 1/2 a game played, but balance seems to be in the Allies favor.  By a lot.  Sure mistakes can be made and such, but really good players seldom make those kind of mistakes. 
 
I read a bunch of after action reports today from your website.  Seems Eric wins whatever side he plays, lol.   I avoided the pitfalls that a lot of the other allied players did not in most of those games.  We acclimated to the rules awfully quickly, there were very few violations, and none which we could not quickly correct. 
 
I guess I'd like to know if you guys agree the balance is pro-allied too.  I'm ok with that, we could easily play with some sort of a bid, like giving japan/germany/italy a free factory, extra units at start, fewer victory city requirements, etc.

[m7574]

wow, this website sure is quiet.  Would anybody care to chime in here?  I'd like to talk a little about this game.

[Mark]

Hi!

It IS really quiet around here - must be all the holiday feasting going on.

Actually, we just got done playing 2 games of the Advanced game - so everyone in our group is recovering from 3 days of pretty intense gaming!

We have played a lot of games of the Struggle for Europe and I think it is pretty well balanced.  The Axis have a lot of advantages early on and with aggressive play can often pull off a win.  That being said, I would say the game is sightly weighted in the Allied favor.  Before you start making tweaks to game balance though, I would play a few games with different players playing different nations.  If the Allies win all 3-4 games, then make a change.

cheers - and hope you enjoy it as much as we do!
Mark

[John D.]

Right - plus it really is difficult to dislodge well set up defenders so toward the end it becomes a difficult race against time for the Allies. They need the production - again - you will need to play it several times. We have had a lot of fun with the basic game!

[m7574]

It seems extremely difficult to punch a hole deep enough into Russia to get and hold 28VP's in 1942.   That and Japan is impotent.  Little old China pushes them around if they build anything other than ground units.   My current game should see 1944, but its no thanks to Japan.   

We play slow and carefully, there are very few mistakes.   Even so, tactical mistakes don't seem to hurt as much in this game because you can retreat instead of getting your entire Army Group demolished.

I am curious what you guys do with Japan.  The game I built a factory really hampered the early war effort, the game my opponent elected not to build one saw a Japan not much better off.   It made me wonder if i was missing something in the rules, like some Jap income from a neutral USA via some sort of trade agreement rule.   Found nothing, lol.

[John D.]

Man - it has been a while since I played that role.

Mark or Craig - any advice?

[Yoper]

Sorry guys, I was at Disney this last week and haven't checked in since before that.

Yes, the game is ultimately set up for an Allied win if you play it out to its fullest, but that is where the Bostonians scoring system shines!  Also, give the adjusted VP system a try in which the bottom level early on is 24 instead of 28.  It gives you a bit more leeway when prosecuting the early playout. 

Really, the '39 game is based on the balance between the play of the German and UK players prior to Barbarossa.  Until we got our UK play down, the European Axis kept trashing the convoys and busting out through the Middle East.  Plus, we pushed Mark to come up with the alternate entry system for the US and USSR to give a better play of the game once we cleaned up our early Allied game play.

As the guys say, you need to play some more and push the boundaries of the system.  Then try out some of the optional rules to see if they fix some of your concerns.  Also, come forth with any ideas you might have on specific areas or rules and we can discuss them.  We may have already gone over them previously and will have thoughts/answers for why things are the way they are.

Seems Eric wins whatever side he plays, lol.

Yes, he does!!!!

[Godleader]

For me the original version is well balanced in the total game played 50% allies 50% axis victory.

[John D.]

Plus - If I remember correctly - Mark was saying he was always just toying with Eric....

[Yoper]

Plus - If I remember correctly - Mark was saying he was always just toying with Eric....

He had his hands full with Dan on the Eastern Front, so there was no time for toying with Eric.

[m7574]

I really like the 24 VP idea.  Right now our allied play seems well ahead of the axis play.   Russia has no problem handling the German advance, and playing the UK well has not been a problem either.   There are a few things we have cleared up rule-wise that should make thinngs a little tougher as the UK player.   

 Japan seems to be the hardest to play.   I will trust your opinion on the matter, we will just have to do better.   I think for me that means no Jap factory.  At least not for a while.

The struggle for me is not for Europe and Asia, its to convince my gamer pal that the axis have a good shot.   

[Mark]

We'll have to paradrop John in to play the Axis in a game for you

Japan can usually hurl almost all of their product at China early on - (using all of their planes and available troops) to really hammer the Chinese and put them on their back foot.  Can really cripple them early on while their are building for a big jump when they strike at Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese can usually jump off and take a lot of VPs and islands in the first 2-3 turns of going to war with the Allies.  Then it gets tougher.  They will never win outright, but they can get themselves in a position to hold out on VPs long enough to win the game.

They also have a big advantage of a central position.  They can choose to go for India, Australia or across the Pacific - usually the Allies can't defend against a focused Japanese effort effectively during the first few turns.

At least that is how I remember it.

[Yoper]

m7574- Where are you guys located?  Did I read somewhere that you are in the Chicagoland area?

If you are close enough to the Detroit area, maybe I can schedule something where at least I (and maybe Eric) could meet up with you for a game.

[m7574]

we are in Cedar Rapids Ia.   If you make it all the way here you wouldn't need a hotel.  I have a spare bedroom.   Transporting this game and the whole set up takes a lot of time better used for game play.  I'd be willing to work something out, whatever works out.

We've been known to play until the sun comes up the next day

The biggest logistical struggle we have in this game is the Non-Combat/Combat movement thing.  We are so accustomed to performing it separately.  I really do like this format however, as it eliminates the whole can-opener thing. 

[m7574]

Mark-

If John paradrops in, he'll be greeted much the same way as the allies were in Market-Garden!
I may be new at this game, but my Allied play will be tough.

Do you guys find a game season lasting like 2hrs?  You know, once every nation has joined the war.  With all nations moving at once it requires a lot of effort to make your move.