Author Topic: Adaptable and Alternative Maps  (Read 9765 times)

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kriegspieler7

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Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« on: December 16, 2007, 08:15:49 AM »
Here's a map I've been working on for  the Pacific Theater of Operations (PTO).
It's a platte-caree' projection with Axis and Allies colors.  It's for your perusal.

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John D.

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 05:36:58 AM »
Very cool! :)

kriegspieler7

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2007, 12:54:00 PM »
I removed the ETO map today as it was, in my opinion, taking up too much space on the website.† I'll be posting a smaller, cleaner one in the future.† I may be able to put up a Mediterranean Theater of Operations (MTO) in a few days, before I do that though.
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Mark

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2007, 01:24:54 PM »
This map does look very cool. What program do you use to create it?

I've been working on an AP map as well - but I am only in Black and White at the moment

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kriegspieler7

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2007, 03:52:37 PM »
It's a map I downloaded, and sadly, I can't remember the site, which had a number of other things which had to be cleared up, like country names, city names, names of bodies of water, latitude and longitude, etc.  I just got it into microsoft paint, then I got the hp Image editor, and then Paint Shop Pro X.  The thing is taking longer than I thought, but it's coming along.  If I knew how to work each program well, I'd probably have gotten it done sooner.  The colors get clouded, so that when I look at the image again, I have to re-paint part of it.  I tried to get the best image to post.

In case you're wondering about the black line in China, that represents the farthest advance by Japan in summer of 1941.

I guess I'd like to know how you thought up the lines for the areas, especially the water/sea/ocean ones.  The ones on the WW2:TS4EnA are ingeniously done.
 

kriegspieler7

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2007, 03:55:40 PM »
And, I really like how you and I have the Pacific set up better than the other commercial boards.  They just don't do justice to the distances so they don't give the correct impression of the problem of the great distances involved.

kriegspieler7

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2007, 04:17:20 PM »
With your map, it might look something like this.

Please forgive me if I took too much liberty.

[attachment deleted by admin]

kriegspieler7

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2007, 04:07:30 PM »
Here's an idea of a mid-Atlantic and Mediteranean map.

[attachment deleted by admin]

kriegspieler7

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2008, 03:34:50 PM »
Again, this is for Mark (and maybe John)[and at the risk of repeating myself]:     

I guess I'd like to know how you thought up the lines for the areas, especially the water/sea/ocean ones.  (The ones on the WW2:TS4EnA are ingeniously done.)

I'd like to add some and then get this printed out as a banner to play on.  They come in different shapes and sizes, you know.

And Gen-Con Indy's registration and event submission starts Feb. 3!

Mark

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2008, 02:33:39 AM »
Thanks for the compliment on the sea zone and territory layout in the wargame.  It required a lot of trial and error - probably 15 versions of maps - changing sea zones (and territories in Russia) mainly.  I think there are two main design points when creating the sea zones:
1) historical - like, if you want to make the Solomon Sea a place where combats often take place, then you want to position victory points and adjacent sea zones and islands in such a way to make players gravitate to it as an important space.
2) Playability - this is the one that takes a lot of time and testing and the only way to get it right I think is to play the game several times and make tweaks.  But, you have to think out a lot of posibilities and parameters with respect to what you want to represent in plane range and ship movement and the implications of being cut out of supply, can subs reach certain convoy zones, etc.  It took a lot of time to playtest and tweak these things (adding sea zones, taking them away, changing borders of sea zones).  Actually, for my foundation "Frankenstein map" I have even made a couple other changes that are not on the standard map that further playtesting has uncovered.

I think the more of these games and maps that you create, however, the easier it gets to go through this process.  For example, I have made an advanced Europe map over the last several months - and I have only had to make a few changes from the first pass.

Bobsalt

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2008, 04:20:53 AM »
For whatever it might be worth I think the maps look good. Personally I much prefer the colors used on the game map where they delineate the terrain as opposed to using colors to indicate original ownership. The use of subdued colors for the map and armies makes this game much more attractive to me than some of the other games on the market (though I realize thatís a matter of taste). One thing - using the A&A colors how do you plan to differentiate between terrain types? Or are these maps to be used with other rules? If youíre planning to use these maps with something like the rules for The Wargame I think that would totally rock.

Donít take any of that as negative, though - I do appreciate efforts to experiment in trying to improve the look of the game. Iíve personally started what will probably be a very long-term project to paint up all of the units in the game so that every army is painted in historical colors. I started when we were always asking what Russian tanks were light versus medium. I had picked up some decals for Soviet Microarmor somewhere, so I decided to paint the T-34ís in Russian green and put the decals on them. This ended any questions, and they looked so good that I decided to start painting up some other Microarmor I had acquired when I was looking to make a ďbigger and betterĒ A&A before I discovered The Struggle. Iíve since bought more decals and am working right now on some German medium armor, assault guns, halftracks, and British medium armor. This is why Iím hoping that the next generation game will have a larger map Ė I had a bunch of 1/2400 Micronaughts already painted, but they are a little large to fit into most of the sea zones.

On the subject of maps, Iím curious as to where most players set up their maps. I use the ping pong table in my basement. Is the map for the next game youíre working on larger than the current one? Iím wondering what the upper end is for you regarding map size. My guess is that youíd want to keep it under 9í x 5í so that it would still fit on a ping pong table, since that is likely to be the upper end of what most potential customers would have available.
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kriegspieler7

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Re: Adaptable and Alternative Maps
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2008, 02:53:18 PM »
Thanks for the ideas, Mark.  I'll keep them in mind.

Thanks for your comments too, Bob.   I understand what you mean with the different colors/hues to show the type of terrain and climate.  I wonder if there were some way to use other images to show that, like ^ for mountains and # for jungles, and * for forests.  Or even to show a lighter or darker shade of that color for those areas.

I've got 2 6ft x 2ft tables sitting side by side (FYI,from Office Max; they're plastic.  Easier to haul up and down stairs), and a 4ft x 2ft to put at the end.  I can put the whole SfEnA map down and have some space left over.

I've got an older copy Jeff Stien's "The Wargame: WW2" map and the tables fit that just right.

If I make up the PTO map, it won't be any wider than 4 ft.  If I go to game conventions, the largest tables there are 8ft x 2 1/2ft.  I'd love to have room for a ping pong table, but not going to happen.

And I know what you're talking about with the different pieces.  I got a poop load of AnA pieces, from Ebay, both the original game and the newer ones.  And I wondered how to make them different for SfEnA.  I could've just bought the metal ones, many of which I did purchase, BTW.  (Not too many biplanes in AnA!) I've added paint to them, not just the color for the country, but for the pieces themselves.  For instance, I differentiate between medium tanks and light tanks by putting a dot of a different color on the light tanks.  (Check out military symbols sometime and you'll see what I mean.)  Heavy tanks have a colored bar across the back of the turrent.  I did the same with the "fighters", so now naval ftrs can be distinguished from land ftrs.   (Land ftrs can only land/take off from land.  Naval ftrs have a little more flexibility.)  Capital ships, same way.  BB's have 4 dots on the top, BC's have 3, CA's have 2, and DD's have none.  There are probably other things you can do, but this is what I've done.

But to return to the map, I just never felt like any mercator projection of the earth did justice to some of the important concepts of "conflict simulation."  The Peterson projection was another map to use, but the areas around the equator seemed to be stretched north and south.  The platte caree projection is the one I like best.