ww2wargame.com
WWII: Struggle for Europe____WWII: Struggle for Asia => First Edition Game => After action reports from first edition => Topic started by: Yoper on May 15, 2007, 03:27:55 AM
-
Two Friday's ago we started a new game.
We are playing with the US and USSR Optional Entry rules, the alternate Italian Surrender rule, and we used an alternate French Surrender rule.
French Surrender-
France surrender if:
- The Axis occupy three territories in France at the end of an Axis turn, or
- The Axis occupy two territories in France at the end of an Allied turn.
It seemed to work quite well. The Germans had to work a bit harder than they wanted to to take out France, but it still happened in Spring '40.
I was running all the Allied nations the first session knowing that Martin would most likely be around for the second session. That means that Eric is the German horde and Dan is playing the two "li'l feller" nations of Japan and Italy.
I went with a French-only defense of France (Okay, I did send some UK air units to help out. The combined French-UK air force wiped out the Italian-Southern German air threat in the battle for Marseilles).
All the French navy went to the bottom of the sea.
The second session saw Martin take over as the WA.
I will have to look at some of my info and make another post later to give a better view of how the optional rulus have been playing out.
Craig
-
Well, it sounds like things are shaping up for a good game.
John
-
Well, it sounds like things are shaping up for a good game.
John
I wouldn't go that far. :(
As of the end of the second session, the European Axis have taken control of most of the Middle East.
I set up the UK at the end of the first session to start working two transport full of equipment to Cairo each turn. Unfortunately, I was no longer in charge of them during the second session. Martin choose some interesting tactics with the UK.
There was also a point (I think that it was the Allied portion of turn five) in which Martin had moved the UK carriers to the Red Sea to cover the imminent attack on Cairo and then he choose to make an all out sortie away from covering the Atlantic Convoy to attack the German U-boats.
This is a very risky strategy, one that would help relieve pressure on his income. But, if unsuccessful, it would then leave him open to a large convoy loss that would have no defense.
Now we know that the loss of the PPs from the convoys was going to happen anyway, but having the UK fleet in those convoy zones was going to give him a better chance to kill some of those U-boats. A better chance than he would have when attacking them outright.
Well, long story short- He lost Cairo, lost his carrier planes, didn't hit the German U-boats at all, and then took a huge PP loss from convoy and strategic bombing attacks.
To be fair, I did advise him to lose the carrier planes in the air to air combat in Egypt. But I did so since I was of the opinion that what was the point of not losing them. He put them there to try to hold Cairo. If you are going to lose your better fighters instead of the carrier planes, then what was the point of have them down there?
I personally wouldn't have sent them down there in the first place. But it wasn't my country to run at that point. He has to learn somehow.
As for the optional entry rules, I turned in the first set of cards for the USSR in Spring '41.
The US was on a fast track for its first set of cards. I turned in that first set in either the Summer of 1940 or Fall 1940. I can't remember exactly but I feel that it was Summer since I think that the US was able to be sending 10 PPs lend lease for three turns.
That works out as: Turn in 50 points of cards in the Declare War phase of the Spring '40 turn and then the US can start sending the 10 PPs for the next three turns we played.
As the USSR, I met my garrison requirements long before I raised myself to tension level 1 by getting five infantry and one early war fighter into the three border territories. I then was just pushing factories, the medium armor, and the regular fighters that would give me the extra cards towrds declaring war.
While I was looking to build up a hardpoint defense in Kiev by the time the Germans attacked, I have since bailed back from that. I will not have the proper amount of units built up (even with the new conscripts) to comfortably defend forward.
I am not as gifted as Dan is in my use of the Soviet forces. I am much more a numbers guy and will look to trade space for time.
I know that pictures would paint a better picture but I am tired of doing all that work. I have a hard enough time actually playing well, I don't need the added distraction.
Craig
-
I know that pictures would paint a better picture but I am tired of doing all that work. I have a hard enough time actually playing well, I don't need the added distraction.
:o That's why I lost last month! ! ! it is all clear now - it's because I had to take all those damn pictures! Now I can finally sleep knowing that I could defeat Dan and Eric in a fair fight. . . ;D
Nice commentary, Craig - Hope your game makes it past 1942 this time :)
Any word yet on my arch-nemesis' Origins plans?
-
I know that pictures would paint a better picture but I am tired of doing all that work. I have a hard enough time actually playing well, I don't need the added distraction.
:o That's why I lost last month! ! ! it is all clear now - it's because I had to take all those damn pictures! Now I can finally sleep knowing that I could defeat Dan and Eric in a fair fight. . . ;D
Nice commentary, Craig - Hope your game makes it past 1942 this time :)
Any word yet on my arch-nemesis' Origins plans?
Why else do you think that I had you do it? ;)
He hasn't put forth any more info about his thoughts. Maybe it will become clearer this Friday night.
I would think that it would seem unlikely since I will be unavailable during the timeframe he was talking about.
It will just have to wait for a Fall roadtrip for us to the land of the creator. ;D
I will alert the other guys that they should put their impressions about the game up here in the forum
Craig
-
Back to the carnage tonight.
I am going to take my camera because it is just easier than writing this stuff up. :o
Craig
-
Cool- Now you will have an excuse like Mark if things don't go well. ::) :o ;)
By the way - anytime you want to make a road trip here, just let us know. Our whole group will rally for that! 8)
John
-
The first four pictures are of how the war stood at the end of Turn #7.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
End Turn #7
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis Turn #8
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #8
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #8
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #8
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #9
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #9
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #9
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #9
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #10
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #10
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #10
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #10
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #11
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #11
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #11
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #11
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Yoper - As usual, nice pics.
I get the sense that the Axis are picking on the UK...
Will the US come to the rescue on time?!
-
The Japanese are sitting on the Yamato, a Fleet Carrier, and a Light Carrier in their "0" box so as to not give the US any extra cards.
I have a few things that we are doing different with the optional rules.
We did not give the US two cards when the USSR declared war since the chart states the they only get cards if the Axis declare war on the USSR.
You guys may not have intended for it to be that way but we decided that it should be that way.
I have other questions/comments, but I will put them in the US Optional Rules thread.
Craig
-
The Japanese are sitting on the Yamato, a Fleet Carrier, and a Light Carrier in their "0" box so as to not give the US any extra cards.
A viable strategy...
We did not give the US two cards when the USSR declared war since the chart states the they only get cards if the Axis declare war on the USSR.
You guys may not have intended for it to be that way but we decided that it should be that way.
I have other questions/comments, but I will put them in the US Optional Rules thread.
Craig
Yes - the intent was draw 2 cards when the 2 powers are at war. That will be corrected.
Good catch.
John
-
Actually, we think that if you correct it, it should be clearly stated to it is one way only.
If the USSR is in a position to actually declare war (whether they should or not, based on their preparedness is another argument), then the US shouldn't get the cards.
Craig
-
Sure understood. The Axis will not declare war just to attempt to delay US entry (as was done in your game). Maybe it is no big deal. I guess you are playtesting that now...
Good luck! 8)
-
Hey, I got luck and draw the "8" I needed to declare war and back off.
Eric told me that he was going to attack me the next turn anyway.
At least with me declaring war, I not only was able to withdraw my forward garrisons, but the Far East and Turkish garrisons were able to come West one turn earlier.
We shall see whether it actually makes a difference.
Craig
-
Very cool. Are you getting any lend lease? Do you feel that you will be able to hold all major VP cities? Do you like building defensively, offensively or both?
John
-
The last two (?) turns the US is up to TL (2), so it has been sending me 4 PPs via the Far East Convoy.
Early on I was pushing the Factory builds to get the extra cards and to set myself up with extra production once I was at war.
That took away from extra infantry builds. I was also pushing the armor and fighter builds to get the cards, but also have the heavy equipment in place before war broke out.
I figured I could come back with infantry later. Now I am scrambling to get enough in place. From the pics you can see that I am paranoid about the paratrooper threat, but that strategy decision is going to have to change.
I wanted to defend forward in Kiev, but later decided that I just didn't have the numbers to make it happen. As such I had three mediocre forces of which the center one got crushed.
My "less than" abilities in the nuances of land warfare are going to be my down fall. I need the numbers to be in my favor to make up for my lack of flair. Eric is going to fully exploit my flaws and put the game into a position where Dan will bring in the Japanese and blow out past the winning VP total.
Craig
-
That sneaky Stalin broke our pact and declared war on the Fatherland! He beat me to the punch and actually invaded the Carpathians and Galacia. Of course you know, this means war!!!
Il Duce and I cooked up a plan to capture Cairo in which all of our effort was focused unto that end. Churchill sniffed out what we were up to and threw all that he could into Cairo's defense, including his carrier planes. In a multi-round battle that swung back and forth with alternating hot and cold dice on both sides, the Axis emerged victorious with the 7 panzer divisions making the difference. Rommel was given the proper support to get the job done. We decided to give control of Cairo to the Italians to boost their morale for the long fight ahead.
The Afrika Korps are being recalled from their glorious victory to serve on the Eastern Front. The Japanese ambassador just has informed me of danger of war coming sooner than anyone would expect. The war is heating up and I predict victory for the Axis!
-
Wow - that was one heck of an Axis push. 7 Panzer divisions will make a difference ANYWHERE!
All of India and the Middle east is cut off. I have never seen that before the Japanese entered the war!
Looks like a fun game.
I am curious whether the US will come the the rescue on time... :o
-
All of India and the Middle east is cut off. I have never seen that before the Japanese entered the war!
I think that if you go back to some of the other games we have had and you will see the European Axis running into the Indian Ocean causing havoc long before the Japanese join the fun.
It looks like I will be running the whole show this week.
At least it will be a concerted lossing effort, instead of fragmented. :'(
Craig
-
Running all of the Allies...
That makes planning smoother. ;D
-
Axis #12
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #12
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #12
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #12
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #13
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #13
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #13
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #13
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #14
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #14
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #14
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #14
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Things are pretty grim for the Allies at this time.
We are going to play out the game even if the Axis get to their VP totals. The thought being that we would like to see how far the Allies can reverse the tide before turn #25.
We have also been talking about setting the VP chart to start applying once the US is in the fight. Which would mean that the game could end earlier or later than turn #25 based upon the actual turn that the US enters the game.
Just some ideas.
Craig
-
Now that the Allied Winter turn is over - looks like a reverse Stalingrad is coming.... :o
-
Nice pictures Yoper :-)
One question. You play 'ownership' a bit different? Because some territories stay italian while there are only german units on it?
-
One question. You play 'ownership' a bit different? Because some territories stay italian while there are only german units on it?
Der Fuhrer and Il Duce have a good working relationship. Those territories in Africa that have Italian control markers in them were jointly conquered by German and Italian units. Since we are playing with the optional Italian morale rules, it makes sense to give control of these areas to Italy since they serve to boost the Italian morale. As shown on the marker on the map, Italian morale is at a +10! The Italian's could not be happier with their conquests in this war.
At the same time. it makes sense to garrison these areas with German units in case the Italian's change their mind about the war. If Italy surrenders to the Allies and their units go home, then Germany would gain control of those territories, or at least make the Allies have to fight for them!
-
As Germany, I have been investing in 3 forts per turn to build the Atlantic Wall since the fall of France. Thus, the large number of fortifications along the Atlantic. Most of the Luftwaffe was recently sent to Genoa to chase the Allied fleets out of the Mediterranean.
Will these moves serve to keep the Western Allies at bay? Or will they draw too many resources from the Eastern Front? Only time will tell.
The great part of a war game like this is that you can try out different strategies to test out "what if".
-
Now that the Allied Winter turn is over - looks like a reverse Stalingrad is coming.... :o
Yep, I see it now too! :o ::)
-
Way to go, John - tip off the enemy. . .
-
Eric,
Did I tip you off or did you already see this at the end of the Allied turn? I will feel guilty if you did not see this. :-[
John
-
I'm just giving you a hard time - I'm sure Eric would have seized any opportunity if he did not already notice it. But, he will get what he deserves in another month at Origins. . .
-
I did notice the possiblity of encircling Stalingrad before John mentioned it. At the same time I have been keeping a close eye on the medium armor stack in Moscow. :o It looks like the Red Army would be able to break out of such an encirclement, but it may require a Moscow Front mechanized attack to do so. ;D
Ah, the choices and decisions to be made.
-
I actually saw it at the end of the night, after I had finished my turn.
Oh well. ::)
Craig
-
Actually - with that big stack of tanks in Moscow - the Russians might be able to do a lot of damage to the Germans if they overextend themselves too much - I was not looking at how much firepower Yoper had up there. . .
-
Maybe encircling Stalingrad is exactly what the Russians want the Germans to do... Hmmm...
-
Axis #15
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #15
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #15
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #15
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #16
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #16
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #16
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #16
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #17
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Axis #17
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies #17
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Allies # 17
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Update from the Eastern Front
As predicted by some, Operation Encircle Stalingrad was a go for the Spring of 43. In addition, 2 paratrooper units were sent to capture Grozny in order to accelerate the push towards Baku. The group attacking to the north of Stalingrad was met with fierce resistance and of the 5 panzergrenadiers and 1 panzer units sent across the Volga only the panzer unit survived. If the Russians had scored one more hit, the encirclement would have failed...
To my surprise, the encircled Soviets attacked to the north and withdrew after a round further north, abandoning Stalingrad altogether. The large force in Moscow stayed in place. These moves emboldened army group center and south to drive on into Stalingrad and Baku in the Summer of 43. Then in the Fall of 43, army group north charged into Novogorod which the Germans and Russians had been trading back and forth for many turns. These conquests have pushed the German war economy to 109 PP! :o
-
Our choice to suspend the 42 VPs victory condition for this game allowed the Soviets to plan long-term instead of making desperate defenses of territories that I wasn't comfortable staying in.
I feel that eventually I will be in a position to finally strike back. But it will be when I am ready, not just because I have to.
Now it is all about my ability to reduce to the Axis down to less than 10 VPs before the end of turn 25. We shall see.
Craig
-
Ok - I see the long term plan. I will be quite a race! I will stay tuned. Can't wait to see how this turns out - whether the US and Russia can squeeze the Germans quick enough. The Japs are all over the place. I can see that the US is building quickly. Craig - you have you hands full. Good luck!
John
-
Actually, the best Allied country for awhile there was China!
I had the one remaining Japanese stack in my sight, looking to clear out any presence in the interior, but missed badly. :'(
I have fallen back to the mountains to regroup.
I have been doing a bit more strategic bombing of Germany than we normally do. The combination of defending fighters and the AA guns have just been too much of a deterent for our group up to this time.
We were thinking that maybe the AA gun rules concerning the SBRs should be modified to allow the bomber to make its attack before the firing of the gun. Kind of like the attacks on the convoys by the subs.
The damage is then done but the defender has the chance to bring the bomber down. Defending fighters still fire before the the bomber rolls its SBR attack.
This change would simulate the defending fighters intercepting the attacking bombers before the bombers reach the target. It then would model the fact that the bombers are being lost over the target, but that most bombers still happen to release their bomb loads on said target.
We are talking about a bomber representing a large amount of aircraft.
Craig
-
Good point Yoper
-
Played last night. ;D
Forgot the camera, so no pictures. :-[
Sorry guys. :(
The USSR actually launched an attack! :o
I didn't execute it as properly as I should have though. Oh well. I still don't have all the nuances of Eastern Front warfare down pat.
Martin showed back up so he ran the UK and China most of the night. We had some good back and forth action in the Western Med./North Africa. The Japanese fleet had so little to do once it had helped take out India that it now has a large presence hanging out with the Italians in the Med!
The Germans and the Japanese have finally linked up in the Persian area via the Caucasus and the Japanese are now pushing the Chinese back into the mountains. The Japanese alone have 22 VPs.
I also finally had enough strength with the US to go after the Japanese carrier fleet that was menacing any movement in the Eastern Pacific.
I have continued to push the heavy bomber program as the USA and am doing okay with it, especially since I can now escort the bomber with WA fighters. I still think that the AA gun system should be changed to make it simultaneous with bomber damage. Our group agrees, even Eric the German player.
We will finish this game up after Origins since I am gone for the next two weeks on a trip to South Dakota.
Then we have a rematch with Mark, John, and friend at Origins. Will the Allies be victorious again or will the dastardly Axis learn from their mistakes and make it happen this time.
I will take pictures this time to make sure Mark has no excuses! ::)
Craig
-
I still think that the AA gun system should be changed to make it simultaneous with bomber damage. Our group agrees, even Eric the German player.
I agree and would like to play it this way at Origins.
-
Yes - I like this rule.