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WWII: Struggle for Europe____WWII: Struggle for Asia => First Edition Game => After action reports from first edition => Topic started by: panzers on July 06, 2006, 07:20:25 AM
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I missed my grand opportunity to play this game at origins, however I have since been told that the're are a few of you out there that have a copy of the game. I would love to be a part of it. Plese write back if anyone out there is interested in playing a game. Steve(panzers)
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I have a copy of the game.
I will be taking it to my regular Friday night gaming group tonight and we will see about playing it.
I will pm the contact info and direction to our gathering if you are interested in checking it out.
Craig
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I introduced the game to my regular Friday night group.
Two of the other three regulars were present and also there was a new player that I happen to contact from him posting this thread here in the AAR section.
We ran through a practice turn and went over the basics for the game. I had sent the rules to the other guys but since they only had them for a couple of days, they had not read much.
I was the "knowledgable" player with only one read through and some game time at Origins.
We will get back to the start of a full game next week.
I am going through all my various plastic pieces to get some consistent sets for each country.
I am also going to cut the map into four sections- each 2' x 3'- and placed them into poster frames that can be lined up side by side.
It is the only way we can keep a game set up from session to session. My friend, whose house we play at, can then take the individual sections upstair to a spare bedroom and store them there. Anything bigger will not fit through the bedroom doorway.
If we played at my house, then we could keep it set up. But I live out from the Detroit metro area and his house is the logical meeting place.
More next week.
Craig
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I have successfully (:o) partitioned the map into four parts and placed the parts into separate poster frames.
Now it is protected from usage wear and can be properly stored between game sessions.
I will take some pics of our game sessions for posting once we get going.
Craig
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Great- Looking forward to some feedback!
John
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Yoper - good luck tomorrow night!
Remember:
Amphibs (except for the Japanese) and para drops cost $
There are certan garrison requirements that countries must maintain until they are at war.
Air to air combat proceeds every round of naval or ground combat.
Planes can only be killed by AA or other planes.
You must garrison captured territories to get money from them.
Those are the most common mistakes folks forget about their first time playing.
Feel free to post or email any questions that come up
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We were doing all those things right.
It was the German submarine being attacked out in the Atlantic that I did wrong. I had us resolve it on the Naval battles chart (which it can be done on, but on which I shouldn't have chosen it to be done on!).
I will do it next time on the Strategic so as to save my subs.
Craig
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yeah - subs are hard to hunt and kill. . .
Instead of introducing complex or time consuming seperate find and attack rolls, we decided this was a better way to model it (since, almost opposite to surface engagements, destroyers are your best sub hunters and battleships are pretty much ineffective).
Things don't hunt and attack subs as effective as they defend convoy zones from subs (destroyers attack subs on a "1" but defend zones against sub attacks on a "2 or less") I think this is an important characteristic to model. Early in the war, when Churchill was Lord of the Admiralty, he advocated chasing subs all over the Atlantic like cavalry rather than escort duty - to disastrous results. destroyers were busy trying to find subs to kill while convoys were getting sunk at an alarming rate - it did not take long for the British to change tactics.
The game tries to reflect these strategies: when you don't have a lot of destroyers and planes - you are better off defending your convoy zones. Eventually, if you have lots of destroyers and planes, it might make sense to form hunter killer groups as well and chase the subs down.
anyway - my 2 cents - others have different strategies in dealing with subs. . .
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So Yoper - did you get a chance to try things out on Friday?
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We started a '41 game.
Between setting up and getting a feel for things we only got through one turn.
We will be continuing tomorrow night and hopefully things will pick up.
We are playing with four player again and the new guy wasn't there. Our other regular was back and so he was checking it out for the first time.
I am in the process of rereading the rule book to brush up on different things that were cropping up.
I did send away for a few of the metal miniatures. Just for a few of the specialty units like the Kaytushka rockets and the IL-2s.
Craig
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Craig,
What nationality are you playing?
John
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I am the European Axis. :o
Craig
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We have gotten in three turns so far. The first night was set up and the first turn. The second night was the second and third turn.
While we have had certain questions that needed clarifications, we have done quite well at getting a handle on what is going on.
I think that things will pick up as we continue to play. I figure that we will get in a minimum of three turns per night once we get rolling.
Once my wife is back with the digital camera, I will start taking pics of the progress that we are making.
Craig
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Hi Craig,
It does take about 3-4 turns to get in a rhythm. After your first game or 2, the overall strategic approach will be the addiction (when the rules are well known).
Have fun!
John
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Good to hear, Craig - after you get a couple games under your belt, things move much quicker. Â
For us, playing the 39 game, the first 6-7 turns take about 30 minutes each, then the game slows down when the Germans go into Russia - the middle 10 turns of the game (through 43) take up to an hour each. Turns in 44-45 speed up a bit again to about 45 mins a turn on average. Â A full 39 game usually runs us about 15-16 hours to the end. Â The 41 game shaves about 4 hours off the game. Â You guys are grinding through the long turns right now - lots of action with Barbarossa and the Japs going to war.
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Hello Craig,
Here is a little advice. If you get deep into Russia, the 15 rails will become an issue, especially if you need to defensively react to potential or actual Allied invasions. It is very convenient to build mechanized units in the Saar or Austria (to move into Paris or Rome respectively), without having to use up precious rails. You may have already figured this out but I thought I would bring it up, just in case. :)
John
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Settle down guys!
Don't give me too much advice or my Russian opponent will get bent.
He said that he has checked out the AAR section to see what I have written about our game.
Craig
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:o Opps! Ok. Sometimes I get carried away. Does the Russian player want any advice? Maybe I should just keep quiet.
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I have some pics from our game last night.
I will post them later.
They are from late '42 in a '41 scenario game.
The Axis are already on the ropes and we decide to end the game when we got to the end of the night.
We will start a new game next week.
A '39 game with new countries for each of us.
Craig
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Here are a couple of pics from Friday night.
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And more.
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VERY COOL pics, Yoper!
Your Russian player appears to have quite an offensive going in that last shot!
Hopefully you guys have the rules down pretty well now so that you can get into a good game this Friday!
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Wow - those photos remind me our our group! No one ever looks at the camera because they are too busy studying the next move....
I hope everyone had a good time during their first learning/playing experience.
You know it is a good game when you can have fun losing! (ask me how I know)
John
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Hello Craig,
Well, now that the site is back up, has your group made any more progress playing?
John
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Here are the pictures from Friday, 08/25/06.
The first four are from Winter '40-'41.
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The next five are from Autumn of 1941.
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#4 & #5
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More later.
Craig
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Wow - looks like a close game. The Med looks like an Axis lake and the Japanese fleet looks intimidating. Quite a few troops on the Marshals...
On the other hand Russia has quite a border built up...
Looking forward to see how things play out.
John
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And it certainly looks like the Brit appreciates the importance of protecting those North Atlantic convoys... no fool he.
dd
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Things might look rosy, but were far from it! :o
Here comes the winter of 1941/42.
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The winter of my discontent led to a spring of despair.
Here is the Spring of 1942.
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Hey Craig,
Worldwide activity...
What nationality are you playing?
John
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I am the unfortunate Soviet masses. And I also happen to be the Chinese peasants.:( :-[
My plight is only outdone by the UK. :o :'(
Craig
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The Soviets don't look like they are doing too terribly. So the Jerries are at the gates of Moscow, but that's all they have and not in force (or so it looks like). With a solid Soviet hold on Romania, what's to complain about?
Nice heavy duty US support for Britain! Way to go US!
What are the production levels like?
dd
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The problem is the Axis are at the 40-41 VP level and will most likely take Kharkov on the Eastern Front. With only a few units adjacent to that territory, liberation is unlikely.
We (the WA/USSR/China) are on the very edge and are not in a position to trade VPs. The end is near.
Actually, if we can't make it happen that will mean we can start a new game sooner.
I will bring my camera again so that you can see how this plays out.
Craig
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We decided that the last game was hopeless.
Started a new one. New pictures coming for the new game.
Already a bit of a mess.
Craig
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The problem is the Axis are at the 40-41 VP level and will most likely take Kharkov on the Eastern Front. With only a few units adjacent to that territory, liberation is unlikely.
We (the WA/USSR/China) are on the very edge and are not in a position to trade VPs. The end is near.
[snip]
Craig
I missed the photo showing the Japanese in Calcutta and the Germans holding the Persian oil fields... oops!
Puts a completely different complexion on the Russians managing to be in Romania... :-\
dd
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"a bit of a mess" for who? The Allies again?
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No! :-[
Some how I ended up on the same team again with the WA player from last game. He is the German player. Our "On again, off again" fifth is the Italian player. I am the Japanese player.
The German player talked us into bringing in the Italians on the second turn. The French fleet was out in the Atlantic and the British fleet in the Eastern Med backed off into the zone next to Palestine after it sent its AC to the Atlantic.
That opened things up for a miracle amphibious assault of Cairo.
You can use that info to then review the pics and see where it has gone from there.
Craig
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At least the UK player has not lost the home island!
John
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Things "appear" ok so far. . .except for the sneak attack into Cairo. If Turkey and Spain do not join the Axis because of it, the Brits may be able to recover Egypt if they work fast. France looks reinforced with a bit more of the BEF this game - it will be interesting to see how the battle for France turns out!
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These first three are from the end of the Axis part of the turn- Winter '39/'40.
Craig
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The next seven (#4 - #10) are from the end of the Allied part of the turn- Winter '39/'40.
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Pics #11 - #15 are from the end of the Axis Turn- Spring '40.
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Pics #16 - #21 are from the end of the Allied turn- Spring '40.
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After this game finishes, I will start a new thread for each new game we start- just like the other ones listed in this section.
This thread is getting crowded.
Craig
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Wow! I thought it looked like a good close game until I noticed the Allies own almost half of Italy! Maybe the Axis will get lucky and save Italy - the German airforce and some of their tanks could come in really handy down there before the Italians decide to hang Mussolini. . .otherwise this might be another short game for you.
The inability for the Germans to make any inroads into France in Spring of 1940 is scary - what happened on the Western Front in the Spring?
Your Japanese look like they are doing pretty good - the Chinese could sure use some lend lease over the Burma road. . .
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Wow again. When I was looking at all the images. I was mainly watching Cairo and the Western Front build up. I did not notice the landings in Italy. That IS scary...
John
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On turn three (the second Italian turn), the Italian player decide to attack the bottled up UK fleet in the Eastern Med. instead of moving back to the Central Med. to contest the Wa fleet that was massing in the Gibraltar area.
Between not fully understanding the retreat rules for naval battles and, more importantly, the gambling nature of the Italian player, Italy is now in deep trouble.
The fact that the Italian player used 6 of his 7 PP to conduct the amphib of Cairo then leads to no extra land units being in the Boot for defense when the UK comes a calling.
While I agreed with the attack on Cairo (I was the one who actually saw it!), I advised him to retreat and cover Rome/make it tougher for the UK to attack. Without the Italian fleet in the middle sea zone the UK was able to go into the zone and allocate his forces in any manner he wished.
As for the effort in France, I would rather not go there. The German player is going against the player who was the German player last game. You think he is having a tough time in France, it will be really ugly on the Eastern Front later(if we even get that far.).
Craig
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Seems to me you need to square off against the guy who is playing the Western Allies in this game ang who played Germany in the last game - whoever he is, seems he has grasped the games nuances extremely well. . . Bring him to one of the cons next year - John needs a challenge
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cool - somebody was just posting on another thread that it would be cool to see France last until 1941 - they should tune into your game. . .if it gets that far!
very cool pics!
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Actually, the guy who played Germany last time is playing USSR/France/China this time.
But the WA player is good too. They are really working well together to defend France like it should be defended.
The Geman player from last game had already made plans to be at Origins for next year- even before we started to play your game.
Just the other night, I said that I should bring him to your event and let him have a go at you guys.
Craig
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That would be great!
I want him on my side! ;)
John
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How much are you will to pay for that privilege? ;D
Maybe, after the first game, I would be willing to let you have him for redemption purposes. ;) :)
Craig
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Sounds good to me! I'm a good sport when it comes to losing. I have had plenty of practice... :o
John
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I am getting plenty of practice right now! :-[
Craig
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We will not be getting together again until 10/06/06. :o >:(
Right now I am redoing the Set-Up Charts to include the PP and VP info in the tables.
I really need a small working copy of the map with all the VP, PP, and Territory names on it so that I can verify the written info that I have.
My gaming buddy that hosts our games has the game map at his house. He gave me some preliminary info that I mostly corrected the last time we played, but I still do not have all the info I need to fully update the Set-Up Charts.
Plus, this break will give me time to finish painting the rest of my metal minatures. I will probably not end up painting the French and Italian cruisers that I bought simply because they are larger than the Xeno BB that I have for both countries. I will stick with the Table Tactics cruisiers that we are using for the time being.
Craig
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Well, it could be worse - I don't get to play again until October 21st :'(
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I have pics from last night. I will download them later.
I also laminated all the country charts and they look nice! :)
We only had three players last night so I was playing all the Axis. :o
I think that I did an adequate job of stablizing the situation in Europe but now we are at the Barbarossa crossroads with little preparation on the German's part.
Craig
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You were playing all of the Axis. - It is nice when all of the Axis powers are on the same page!
John
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The problem is I wasn't in charge of all the Axis from the beginning of the game. :o
I spent a lot of time just cleaning up messes made from the earlier rounds.
Craig
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Axis Turn- Summer '40
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Axis Turn- Summer '40
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Allied Turn- Summer '40
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Allied Turn- Summer '40
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Axis Turn- Autumn '40
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Axus Turn- Autumn '40
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Allied Turn- Autumn '40
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Allied Turn- Autumn '40
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Axis Turn- '40/'41
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Axis Turn- '40/'41
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Axis Turn- '40/'41
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Allied Turn- '40/'41
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It sounds like the German player isn't going to be around again this week so I will be playing all the Axis again.
At least knowing this will give me a chance to plan ahead.
Craig
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Great photos!
Looks like Italy was being picked on!
John
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Italy came in early. On the second turn.
Its fleet should have come home to protect the boot after the intial thrust but did not.
Now things are stable down there but there is no real set up for operations in the East.
Craig
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Well, it looks like you are going to make a game of it now :D - for at least a while ;D - it looked like it was pretty much over for the Axis after your last session! If the allies make some mistakes and you don't you may be able to win it - a lot will depend on Japan and the Pacific as well as how the Russian front goes. . .
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The UK is setting up for a very good threat on the coast of France while slowly putting the pinch on the Med.
I think that the European Axis are in a quiet time before the storm.
Things don't look good.
Craig
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Axis Spring '41
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Axis Spring '41
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Allies Spring '41
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Allies Spring '41
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Axis Summer '41
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Axis Fall '41
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Allies Fall '41
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It looks pretty interesting! Next time you guys get together should be pretty telling - I wonder what will happen on the Eastern Front - very exciting maneuvering going on there! Will the Japanese take Calcutta? Will the Allies try a very early invasion of France? Will Italy surrender?
Looks like a good game!
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The Germany/Italian player has decided that because of the fragility of Italy he has sent the Italians to the Eastern Front to be used as fodder.
The US/UK player has been really good at watching what other have done in the prior games and applying those lessons to the current game.
He had his US Pacific fleet forward-positioned throughout the lead up to open hostilities and I wasn't in any position to get after any part of this fleet once war started.
That is why he is in a good position to start causing me trouble.
Craig
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The Germany/Italian player has decided that because of the fragility of Italy he has sent the Italians to the Eastern Front to be used as fodder.
One of my favorite tactics when things look rough for the Italians!
John
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Axis Winter '41/'42
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Axis Winter '41/'42
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Allied Winter '41/'42
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Allied Winter '41/'42
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We got this far and decide that this game was over.
The next turn the victory conditions would have kicked in and the Axis were down to 22 VPs.
I (as the Japanese) could have tried to take 5 VPs with the European Axis taking 1 VP, but that was very iffy.
Even with that the US/UK were poised to take more VPs in the Pacific and so the game was lost.
We started a new game and I am putting that in a new thread.
Craig
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Wow - well it looked like the Axis had a big hole to dig themselves out of from 1940 - Having the Russians at the border of Poland and the Americans already deep into Japanese waters in the Winter of 1941 is pretty scary.
Your new game looks like it is off to a good start! Everyone has a few games under their belts now and must have the flavor of the game down now - not just the rules.
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We shall see.
The German player and I (Italy) are off to a good start, but the German player hasn't had the Japanese player as a teammate yet.
After discussing our strategy at the start, the German player finished his turn and then looked at what had been done by the Japanese player and was very perplexed.
They had a long talk about changing things around to match what we had just talked about.
Hopefully we can make a big dent in the European theater to buffer what goes on in the Pacific later.
The really good player is the USA/UK player. It will make for a very interesting Pacific theater.
Craig