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WWII: Struggle for Europe____WWII: Struggle for Asia => First Edition Game => After action reports from first edition => Topic started by: Erc on January 27, 2007, 02:38:56 PM
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Last Friday we started another game with the following lineup.
Dan UK/US
Martin Russia/China/France
Craig Japan/Italy
Eric Germany
We are going to give another go at it to see if we can get past 1942!
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The following pics are from the first 4 turns after the Allied portion of the turn. Autumn 39 1 of 4
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Autumn 39 - 2 of 4
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Autumn 39 - 3 of 4
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Autumn 39 - 4 of 4
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Winter 39/40 - 1 of 4
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Winter 39/40 - 2 of 4
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Winter 39/40 - 3 of 4
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Winter 39/40 - 4 of 4
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Spring 40 - 1 of 4
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Spring 40 - 2 of 4
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Spring 40 - 3 of 4
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Spring 40 - 4 of 4
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Summer 40 - 1 of 4
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Summer 40 - 2 of 4
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Summer 40 - 3 of 4
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Summer 40 - 4 of 4
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It looks like the UK did not help out the French much but instead chose to put pressure on Italy. It does not look like Italy declared war yet. Is that correct?
John
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Correct, Italy hasn't entered.
Early plans were for entry just as France was going down, but the UK not supporting the French and building up Egypt threw me off.
I was looking at an invasion of Greece but his large force in the Eastern Med is making me rethink what I am doing.
Japan has hit that lull period between the early action against China/SE Asia and having to deal with the US. I went with a factory and fighters early on so I am a bit light on infantry.
Luckly I didn't lose that many in my land action or there would be a real pinch right now. China could have selectively hit me harder than they did and made life tough on me. Most of my fighters were on the carriers during the early turns but now I can use them to push the issue on the mainland.
Craig
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Very cool play progression! Italy may need some help from the Fatherland!
John
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I think that the Western United States should put all there forces on Wake Island and make a last stand. (Note this would be only for a funny game.)
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Tonight should really tell us how this game is going to go.
Big decisions for Italy and Germany will determine the path of this game plays out.
I hope that I can make it happen for once. :o ::)
Craig
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Make it happen! Woohoo! 8)
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I haven't posted our pics from last Friday night because we are deep in discussion about backing up a few turns to deal with the entry of Turkey.
The UK player backed up in Egypt in response to the sudden activation of Turkey. Then he decided to bail a large contingent of troops off to Burma. This last move left Cairo lightly defended and a successful amphibious assault by the Axis marooned his fleet in the Med. He then suicided that UK fleet into the Italian fleet in a vain attempt to inflict some damage instead of waiting for inevitable air assault.
This last gaff has really put the game out of whack. Since Dan- the UK player- rarely makes mistakes, let alone one of such magnitude, I feel that it was the sudden shift of power in the Med (the Turkish entry) that made this happen.
That and the fact that we are still working on getting Martin- the USSR player- up to speed. Dan is at a disadvantage of not having a teammate to keep an eye out for things he might miss.
Craig
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Well I am glad to hear that you guys play "friendly" games. That is what we do. If there is something that a new player misses or there is something somewhat obvious that ANY player misses - we usually point it out - especially for the sake of having a fun game.
The $1000 competition that we will be having in Detroit with you guys will be a different matter though ;)
John
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Well I am glad to hear that you guys play "friendly" games. That is what we do. If there is something that a new player misses or there is something somewhat obvious that ANY player misses - we usually point it out - especially for the sake of having a fun game.
The $1000 competition that we will be having in Detroit with you guys will be a different matter though ;)
John
$1000???????
I was thinking first born child, but the money is more flexible. ;)
Craig
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I didn't take any pictures at the end of the Axis Fall '40 turn. :'(
I also tried a different tact in taking these pics. I went with an overview shot with the idea of showing more of what is going on and also having to take less pictures.
It ends up making it tougher to see the details, so I will probably go back to the close up shots of the important areas.
Allies 3/40
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Allies 3/40
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Axis 4/40
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Axis 4/40
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Allies 4/40
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Allies 4/40
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Axis 1/41
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Axis 1/41
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Now we are going to go back to this point in the game even though we went on originally to the end of the Allies Summer '41 turn.
We will take Turkey back off the board and continue on from there. Only the European half of the map will be reset and also any UK stuff that transfered to the Asia half.
We will let you know how our modified Turkey/Spain entry idea goes.
Craig
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I don't think Turkey is the problem - but try out what you guys would like. . . More critical is the position of the Brits in the Eastern Med with or without Turkey. Burma is expendable - Cairo can be fatal.
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Sure- I would be curious how your modification goes :).
Don't be afraid of the Turks! - They look tougher than they are. :o ;)
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By the way - I really like the overhead shots!
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Dan's reaction to the Turkish entry was what threw things off. And add in the fact that you have the least experienced player of the bunch running the USSR.
So not only does he have to face off against the best player in the group running Germany, but now he has the pressure of Turkey on his southern doorstep.
I think that Dan would have been alright if he had just gotten his UK fleet out of the Med and into the Red Sea/Indian Ocean. That and maintain a stiff resistance in Cairo.
While Cairo might have eventually fallen, it would have lasted long enough to get to the point where the US is in the war.
Craig
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I tihnk the best way to deal with the Turks is to rail about 10 Soviet artillery and 10 infantry down to Batum and smash the Turks in Erzerum - and then defend there and rail you army back up to fight the Germans...
As for the Brits, I don't know if I would pull the fleet out of the Med. I would back it up a sea zone - and back the army up into Cairo and fort down and defend there. Most of the Axis airforce won't be able to reach the British fleet and it covers the territories behind Cairo if it stays in the Med. . .
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Dan's reaction to the Turkish entry was what threw things off. And add in the fact that you have the least experienced player of the bunch running the USSR.
So not only does he have to face off against the best player in the group running Germany, but now he has the pressure of Turkey on his southern doorstep.
Understood. As long as everyone agrees and is having fun!
John
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Yes, he should have kept if up front if he was going to keep it in the Med.
But once he bailed a lot of troops out of Cairo and moved the fleet back to the eastern most sea zone, he was screwed.
Here is what the map looked like at the end of the Allies Spring '41 turn.
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Here is what the map looked like at the end of the Axis Summer '41 turn.
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Ok - that does looks bad, for the UK, that is. :(
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wow - yeah - an Italian amphibious invasion was apparently not on his mind when he pulled those guys out of there. He should not be so worried about sending guys to Burma . . . I hear the Japanese player in your game is a push over anyway ;D
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The main problem for his fleet, if he kept it in a forward position, was the fact that he could only cover it with four fighters while I could get six German fighters, two Italy fighters, and two bombers into an attack.
I think that is the main reason he backed off to the other sea zone.
But he didn't connect that with the fact that an amphibious assault of Cairo would trap the UK fleet for me to destroy at my leisure.
The Turkish entry scambled his thinking and he didn't see all the possible outcomes of such a move.
Craig
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Okay, the plot thickens! :o
After much talk all week, we finally decided upon what we thought was the best way to fix the present game.
We did some rearranging of the Eastern Med, Eastern Front, and the UK forces that went other areas like Burma. It was all part of a solution that kept us at the end of the Summer of '41 turn instead of going back to the end of the Axis half of the Spring '41 turn.
Turkish forces were removed from the board as part of our revised entry system for Turkey and Spain. The Turks are now contributing 2 PPs to the Germans as a result of the successful trigger at the end of the Axis Spring '41 turn.
Also, at the end of the Axis Winter '41 turn there was a successful Spainish entry roll. Now Spain is sending 2 PPs to the German war machine.
Once the reset was cleared up, we continued on with only three players present. Since Dan was doing all the Allies by himself, it meant we had to be patient while he did a lot of work.
Enjoy the pictures.
Craig
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I went with the high overhead shots again but I also took some additional close-up shots of the main hot spots.
I started with pictures of our amended end of Summer '41 to be used as a base of moving forward. It may seem like a bit of a jump but if you look at the the few pics I posted of this area of the map you will see the differences. This was the main area that was changed in our reset.
Craig
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The forum is spitting at me right now so I can't download any pictures.
I have emailed Mark and John and found out that it will probably have to wait until tomorrow.
Craig
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Allies 2/41
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Allies 2/41
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Allies 2/41
1) Close up of Eastern Front after Dan reset the USSR forces.
2) Close up of the Eastern Med after UK reset of forces.
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Allies 2/41
Close up of SE Asia.
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Axis 3/41
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Axis 3/41
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Axis 3/41
1) Close up of Eastern Front.
2) Close up of Eastern Med.
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Axis 3/41
Close up of SE Asia
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Allies 3/41
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Allies 3/41
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Allies 3/41
1) Close up of North Atlantic/Western Europe
2) Close up of Eastern Front
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Allies 3/41
Close up of SE Asia
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Axis 4/41
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Axis 4/41
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Axis 4/41
1) Close up of Eastern Front
2) Close up of Eastern Med
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Axis 4/41
Close up of SE Asia
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Allies 4/41
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Allies 4/41
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Allies 4/41
1) Close up of NA/WE
2) Close up of EF
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Allies 4/41
1) Close up of EM
2) Close up of SEA
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Now THIS looks like a good game!
John
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Yes, we have finally gotten past our earlier sticking points and should see how a game plays out.
Now we will get a chance to see some of the specialty units in play, how the US impacts the game, the way the scoring system drives some of the later game activities, etc.
We will have a long game under our belts to give us better perspective of how the game should play out.
Craig
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I hope you guys get a long game in. I'm curious to see how the Russian front plays out - it is an interesting Allied strategy there (and in the Med) I guess we will see what effect those withdraws have on the overall outcome.
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Today (02/14/07) would be a good day to crawl into the basement and play a nice long game.
We could play until the snow melts! ;D
Craig
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My sentiments exactly.
John
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I am trying to plow snow here on the "ranch", but I had to stop part way since my fingers were going numb.
If I ever get the plow on my big truck, things will be much easier. Right now I am still using the Wheel Horse tractor. :(
John D.- Why don't you work on that transporter so that you can just show up. ;D
Craig
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Good idea. First I will test it out on my wife's cat. Give the coordinates and let me know how it looks when it shows up! :o
John
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My wife and daughter are allergic to cats.
Plus my old dalmatian would probably hurt himself running after it. ::)
Craig
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My wife's cat is the only creature I consider expendable so I guess I will be flying....
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Axis 1/42
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Axis 1/42
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Axis 1/42
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Axis 1/42
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Allies 1/42
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Right now we are at the point where the Allies need to scramble just to keep the game going.
The Axis have claimed 42 VPS with a few more in their sights. The Allies can get one, maybe two, back on their half of the Summer '42 turn but it will be territories that don't make sense within the boundaries of a long term game strategy.
We are uncertain on how to proceed come this next game session. Play this one out regardless of the VPs or start a new game.
We shall see.
Craig
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Your Allies are in trouble again - Russia has pretty much had it and the Brits have pretty much lost the Middle East and India - it would be a real outside chance for them to pull out of the current situation.
Looking back at your games, it looks like Eric has pretty much been on the winning side of every game. If you plan to play again, maybe consider giving him the UK next time and see if it balances things out for you ???
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Yes, Eric is a beast! :o
Having our least experienced player as the USSR didn't help either.
Dan is a good player but playing the WA and being forced run the USSR some of the time too is tough
Craig.
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wow - Dan is doing the Western Allies and Russia by himself? That is really tough to do (even for someone who has played the game dozens of times. . .)
It becomes tricky when your playing across the whole world. Its a challenge to focus on just one front at a time, before moving to the next front. Meanwhile, your opponenet is just staring at the Russian front for most of the time.
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There was only one night when he had to do both, but it was the night that he made the major gaff concerning leaving his UK fleet in the Eastern Med.
Even with the other player there, not having the USSR player versed enough to also help keep an eye on things that Dan is doing hurts.
Craig
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Looking at the pics some more, I think the Russian front can be stabilized - I believe the Russians can put themsleves into a good position not to lose any more VPs and put some pressure on the Germans.
The thing that is most worrisome is the position of the British in the Middle East and India and the lack of a US navy in the Pacific. If the Brits would have stayed and fought in Egypt rather than redeploying to the UK, it would be much closer. Keeping that central position to be able to reinforce India or Africa is important I think. Pulling the US navy out of the Pacific does not give the Americans much ability to threaten VPs in the Pacific which is challenging as well. Unlike A&A, you can't really team up on Germany and ignore Japan in this game.
If two of the three happened (1) losing Moscow/Leningrad; (2) losing Middle East/India; and (3) No Pacific offensive: the Allies can recover - but losing on all three of those spots without gaining somewhere else is a tough spot to be in.
I was going to post some suggestions for the Russian front. But, I don't have any alternatives for the Middle East, India and the Pacific - I'm not sure what to do for that theater - and they really need to turn things around in a couple places, not just one.
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What we have seen is that the loss of Cairo is a major factor in the Axis victories.
It allows the European Axis to put the UK Commonwealth forces in the Pacific "out of supply". The Japanese will normally cut off strategic movement in the Pacific early on. But if the European Axis have made it through the Suez, then they can combine together to strangle the UK and move on the VPs in the area.
Yes, the USSR might be able to hold in such a manner that would work out well in other games, but the situation in this game dictates that they would have to make attacks that wouldn't be beneficial to a long term strategy.
Craig
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I don't think there is a balance issue with the game favoring the Axis. Most, if not all of our games were nearly decided about the time that Russia and the US entered the war. The first 8 turns sets the stage for the remainder of the war. In all of our games, France was a speed bump and fell regardless of our various Allied strategies in the sping of 40. The game then was decided between the European Axis and the British.
I think the issue that our group has encountered is that the game can be very unforgiving at times. This can be due to tactical errors or die rolling in key battles. In this game the British Med fleet was trapped when the Axis did an amphibious invasion of Cairo, thus closing the Suez Canal escape route. This resulted in the sinking of over half of the British fleet. This put the Allies into a unrecoverable possition fairly early in the game. We went back to reset this in the interest of keeping the game balanced.
An example of die rolling in key battles would be when Germany started Barbarosa, 6 Soviet fighters responded to a German attack that included 5 German fighters. All of the German fighters scored hits while only one of the Soviet fighters got a hit. This immediately put the Russians at a huge air power disadvantage and allowed the Axis to shift a huge amount of fighters to the Western Front when the British came a calling.
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Similar to Churchill's 5 volume history of the Second World War, Dan's written a similar length "commentary and analysis of the 5th Detroit Struggle for Europe and Asia game from the British perspective" ;D
I need to run out and get some more paper for my printer and ink, so I can digest this light reading over the weekend and reply ;)
John is probably the best East Coast player - we'll pit him up against Eric when we get together to play. I better train him up for his big challenge though - he has been a little rusty the last couple games - need to get him back into fighting shape for the title. . .Just give me some backwater like China so I can sit back and observe the fireworks 8)
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I had proposed axing this game and starting a new one, but Dan has put out there that maybe we should just play this one out, regardless of the VP scoring system.
We may do this and just keep track of the VP score at the end of each turn. Then compare this number (for reference purposes) against the scoring system and see how it is playing out.
Craig
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I hate to say it, but I think the Allied position in the Middle East and in the Pacific is going to make the game play out in the Axis favor. I would say you call it if the Axis get their 42 points.
I would not mess with moving the high-end VP limit - if the Axis have that much, trust me, the Allies are not going to recover (well maybe in 1946 sometime).
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We wouldn't move any of the limits, we would just ignore them and play out the game.
We would still check our totals against the scoring system, we just wouldn't end the game based on them.
It might be interesting to do so as to see how the game plays out and for us to get to see some of the specialty units come into play.
We will have to discuss this come Friday.
Craig
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We decided to go with a new game so this one is finished as you see it.
Craig