The problem of Italy

[Mark]

The original post on this thread was the Italy was "too tough" not "too weak".  Anyway, the last game I was a part of (the Feb Hartford game in the After Action Reports section) had Italy and the Italian fleet lasting until Spring 1944 - which I think is pretty good, considering some of the disasters the Axis had in the Med (like the failed invasion of Gibraltar).  After dozens of games, I am not really of the opinion that Italy is too weak - if anything, perhaps the opposite.

Access through the Med can be blocked by sacrificing one destroyer if the Italians have to.  By protecting the Italian fleet with some airpower flown down to the Med after the Fall of France, the Italian navy can be very threatening to the British.

I think the new optional Italian surrender rules add some additional flavor to the Italian role in the game as well.

With respect to Germany - this quote jumped out at me:  "The german navy is negligable, some bombers will do the job, maybe an addition aircraft carrier in the north atlantic and some destroyers to hold the convoy routes just blockade the north atlantic to keep the axis from sending subs"

I think the German navy can be a pretty good threat to keep the British honest.  building your fighters in the Ruhr will keep the British bombers away from your fleet - and if the British move too much away from the Atlantic to the Med or Pacific - sortie it.

I'd like to get some feedback from the guys in Detroit on this as it seems like the Germans have been creating a lot of havoc for the Allies in the Atlantic even with destroyer investment.  If the British sail all their capital ships to the Med, I would definately commit the German navy to go kill some destroyers and loosen things up for my u-boats to do even more damage. 

[Micoom]

While having a look at the new Optional Italian morale table.. I would suggest to add something like  the rolls that are made voor the French fleet when France surrenders, but then not for the Italian Fleet, but for all Italian Ground and Air units in Italy and the rest in Europe. While still removing all units in Africa and the middle East.  Maybe like 1 or 2 the unit remains Axis, on 3,4,5 it surrenders and is removed from play and on a 6 it joins the Allies (only if the unit is based in Italy, Sicily or  Sardinia, otherwise it is also removed)

[Bobsalt]

I just stumbled on this thread while browsing. It looks like the optional Italian surrender rules have solved a lot of the issues in this thread. One tactic was mentioned though that I hadn't considered - the idea of moving the bulk of the Italians to be used on the Eastern Front. Even with the optional surrender rules this is still a possibility if a player knows that he is likey to use up those units in combat before Italy reaches the point where their units outside the Med would surrender.

In real life you couldn't simply transfer the bulk of your armed forces outside your theatre, but this is a political reality outside the scope of the game. I think a rule stating that you cannot have more units outside the Med than you have in Italy would take care of the problem. It is arbitrary - but then so is the rule that requires France to keep their colonial forces in place to prevent the equally unrealistic tactic of emptying their posessions of troops to fight in France.

I do think something like this should be in the rules. I don't think most people would abuse the rules that way, but there's always someone out there who delights in that sort of thing.