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WWII: Struggle for Europe____WWII: Struggle for Asia => First Edition Game => After action reports from first edition => Topic started by: Mark on January 31, 2007, 03:50:29 PM
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We have folks coming in from Cape Cod, Boston and from Connecticut for a big game this weekend. We are getting together at 9am and nobody leaves until the war is won (or lost. . .) I'll bring my digital camera this time. . .
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So, we had a long game that went all day Saturday into the wee hours of the morning before we could finally call it! I think everyone had a great time - I know I did!
Players broke down like this:
Mark and John: Axis (can you believe it. . . :o )
James: Britain and France
Joe: Soviet Union
Todd: U.S. and China
We tried out a couple of optional rules governing uncertain entry of the US and the Soviet Union into the war (card driven). These optional rules are under playtesting and discussed in the optional rules. They worked out great in this game. Also for this game, we also gave the Chinese the ability to build artillery and AA guns.
It is rare that John and I get to play on the same side! Let's get it on!!!
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Germany takes out Poland and Denmark on the first turn and launches a surpirse combined land and naval invasion of Holland! John comes out of the gates swinging. . . The Brits only lightly reinforce France and decide not to contest the German invasion of the Netherlands due to the heavy Luftwaffe presence in the Ruhr. . .
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Winter 1939 - The Japanese advance a little more cautiouslly into China due to the reinforced Chinese builds. In Europe, the Germans take Belgium and prepare for a Spring offensive into France. John's maxing out on his German armor builds out of the gates.
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Winter 1939 - Allied turn. . .The Russians lost 4 infantry units taking out the Finns in the Winter war, but other than that - its been quiet. In the West, the Brits leave the French on their own and the French decide to not contest the border too much.
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Spring 1940. In Asia, the Japanese continue their attacks in China. In the Med - the Italians declare war and pounce on the British fleet off of Egypt despite the Brits having 2 battleships present.
The Italian leadership was vastly superior and caught the British admiral sipping tea in port appaerently. The Italians hit with every one of their ships I believe and the Brits missed with every roll except one. . . The result was the sinking of two out of three British battleship units in the world and the ellimination of the British Naval presence in the Eastern Med. Talk about Pearl Harbor. . . What's Tora Tora Tora in Italian?
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The Germans enter France against weak resistance and decide to blitz into Paris. It's a major showdown and risk for a mech attack - but John goes for it. . . and is repulsed - the French exact significant losses on the German armor and hold Paris. . .
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Since Italy declared war - the French fleet pounced on the Italians off of Egypt - who were apparently still basking in the glory of their recent British victory to notice the French fleet pulling up behind them. . .The French succeeded where the Brits failed and smacked the Italians pretty well.
Meanwhile. . . with the Germans in Burgundy, the French decided to sit tight in their trenches around Paris. But then thought that they should give up and sue for peace with the Germans instead (especially becasue the English left them hanging by themselves!). So, The French surrendered in the Spring of 1940.
But, the French navy deserves some sort of award - because, after France fell and they nailed the Italian fleet - most of the French fleet decided to go allied and join the Free French. This was a tremendous boost for the Allies - after losing two British battleships - to get the French one to help reconstitute the fleet at Alexandria!
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The Japanese take advantage of the French collapse and occupy French Indo-China and Siam joins the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity sphere. . .
Meanwhile. . .the Italian fleet retires to the Adriatic for repairs and is replaced by the Luftwaffe - fresh from its victories in France.
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In the Summer of 1940 - the German's garrison France and the RAF reinforces Egypt and the Middle East
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Summer 1940 - Romania, Hungary, Finland and Bulgaria join the Axis. Russia builds its defenses on the border. the Japanese reinforce Southeast Asia
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Surprise! :o The Italians (that tricky John again. . .) spring a surpise assault on Gibraltar with 3 transports loaded with German and Italian infantry along with a German bomber supporting from Northern Italy. The unsuspecting British have only 2 forts defending the rock!
But - providence shines upon the Brits again - they barely escape defeat, dodging Italian battleship shells and German bombs, they hold out long enough to elliminate all 6 of the infantry divisions assaulting Gibraltar and emerge victorious.
Meanwhile, the Italian army builds up in Egypt for an assault on Cairo. . .
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What's Tora Tora Tora in Italian?
Tora Tora Tora in Italian is....
Tora Tora Tora! ;D
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Hehe nice pics.
But i think France & Britain did a mistake with not fortifying picardy with bunkers and not moving many british troops & fighters to france
(Very hard to beat) ;D
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I like to make France more of a fight too - knock the Germans down a bit if you can in Spring - Summer 1940 to try and weaken them for Russia - I'm not sure why James did not - he invested quite a bit in ASW and an airforce as well as really beefed up the Brits in the Pacific prior to Japan going to war. Maybe that was what was behind his strategy
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Yeah- He really built up a big naval force. It was tough to launch a sub campaign against him. It was either - send out many subs or none at all. Everything was well covered.
John
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John how do you use subs at all?
I mean .. if the enemy has a lot fighters and bombers he can wipe them out pretty fast ?
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John how do you use subs at all?
I mean .. if the enemy has a lot fighters and bombers he can wipe them out pretty fast ?
Ok
I will build subs as soon as France is under control.
When I get together 5-6 I will send and spread them out all over the Atlantic and out of range of enemy air. If they decide to chase the subs around then they are moving out of the convoy zones and attacking at "1s" AND my subs can fire back at the destroyers.
Even if they do not chase you - you can pick the convoy centers that are least defended and hit them hard. Remember that the attacker has the first option to retreat (even if it is just doing convoy damage for 1 round) so you can spread your subs out in adjacent areas again.
Hope that helps a bit.
John
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Winter 1940 - The Japanese continue to prepare for war. In the Med, the British launch a surprise invasion of Libya, cutting off the Italians in Egypt. A furious Italian counterattack manages to kill of the British units - but the Italians didn't have any attackers left to occupy the territory and remain out of supply.
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The British attack out of Cairo and wipe the Italians out in Egypt. Meanwhile forces continue to build up in Eastern Europe.
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The Japanese continue to build up in the Spring of 1941. The Germans and Italians shift their weight back to the Egyptian front after their Gibraltar disaster
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The British also build up in Egypt and the Russians withdraw from their border, fearing the worst.
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More prep - in the Med and in Eastern Europe
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Asia and the Med in Autumn 1941
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Germans finally go into Russia
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Russian front and the Pacific in Winter 1941
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Asia and the Med in Winter
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Russian front and the Pacific - Japan still not at war. . .
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Pacific and the Med - The Japanese have had enough and are ready to go - but with the lack of a u-boat offensive, the Brits have been able to build up Burma and India significantly. Stalemate in the Med?
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I will build subs as soon as France is under control.
When I get together 5-6 I will send and spread them out all over the Atlantic and out of range of enemy air. If they decide to chase the subs around then they are moving out of the convoy zones and attacking at "1s" AND my subs can fire back at the destroyers.
Even if they do not chase you - you can pick the convoy centers that are least defended and hit them hard. Remember that the attacker has the first option to retreat (even if it is just doing convoy damage for 1 round) so you can spread your subs out in adjacent areas again.
This seems to indicate that subs can strategically attack a convoy center and then retreat to an adjacent sea area. Our group has always understood that after a sub makes a strategic attack, the battle is over after one round and the attacking sub must remain in the convoy center that it just attacked.
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We (ok, "I") had interpretted the rules the same as your group innitially. I think it was James who argued that the attacker and then the defender gets the opportunity to retreat after every battle and to be consistent that sequence should be true for submarine strategic attacks as well.
I could not really argue the point and, since it added to the survivability of subs without making any special rules, we incorporated it into how we conduct submraine strategic combat. We've been interpretting the sub rules this way for the last couple games we have played. Unless you guys object, I think I will make this interprettation more clearly stated in the rules.
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I guess so. :o
I can see were one could argue that the ability to retreat by either the attacker or the defender does exist since that step in a round of combat does come before the end of the round.
Eric- the same thing tweaked my "rules antenna" when I read that post. :)
Craig
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I like to make France more of a fight too - knock the Germans down a bit if you can in Spring - Summer 1940 to try and weaken them for Russia - I'm not sure why James did not - he invested quite a bit in ASW and an airforce as well as really beefed up the Brits in the Pacific prior to Japan going to war. Maybe that was what was behind his strategy
What was behind my strategy was that I hadn't played Britain in six or eight months and couldn't remember how to play France... also, the early and heavy focus on ASW and air kind of cut into producing anything to help France. I always figure it's a goner anyway, though I'd expected the French to do more than they did, tho' viva la France for saving the British Eastern Med fleet!!!
Agreed - leaving France to fend for itself is probably not the best way to go, but it is a prejudice of mine to commit to convoy protection from the git-go even though it means a weaker France. Also, it was indeed my strategy to look long-term towards containment of the Japanese, and which mandated protecting British production.
dd
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Spring 1942 - Axis Turn - The Germans advance in Russia and take the Crimea. The Germans choose to ignore the Dieppe-like invasion of lightly defended France that happened in the Winter of 1941
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Spring 1942 - Allied Turn - The British reinforce their Normandy landing and invade Morocco in North Africa as well
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Russian Spring 1942 followed by the German Summer offensive
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It looks like I did not document most of the Axis Summer 1942 turn - sorry about that. I think I got too carried away finally launching my Japanese offensive in the Pacific. . . I shot down a few planes and sank a battleship at Pearl Harbor. Todd responded by strategic moving in the entire US fleet on his turn. In the South Pacific, my invasion of Australian defended Rabaul was a complete failure despite my surprise attack bonus. That Damn Aussie wiped out 4 of my infantry and held the island. . .
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In Southeast Asia things went better. I took Singapore, Hong Kong, the Dutch East Indies and isolated the Philippines. Monty and Rommel continue their test of wills at El alemein.
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The Allies continue their build-up in France and North Africa - and launch an invasion of Norway as well!
"Ahem. . . john. . . JOHN. . .take your gaze off of Russia for a second!. . . well at least he is getting some u-boats out into the Atlantic now. . ." He does not seem worried though. . . he must have a plan. . .
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Ok fine - France and North Africa I was expecting - but attacking Norway! Man - that was a shocker! And they took it easily - not one loss on their side!
That hurt - that really hurt!
I think all of my commanders were trying to figure out how to deal with Uncle Joe's massive defensive line in Russia.
The Brits were sneaky!
I respect that.
John
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Autumn of 1942 Axis turn in the Pacific
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Autumn of 1942 - the Axis land an army in Tunisia to deal with the Allied build up in Morocco and Algeria. The Germans also move a panzer army to France to deal with the Allied landings there. The U-boats are finally inflicting some significant damage on the Allies
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Autumn 1942 - Allied turn - Pacific. The Americans move the bulk of their navy down to Australia to deal with the Japanese advance into the Coral Sea. The Chinese launch an offensive and push the Japanese back in China.
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Allies advance into Eastern Algeria in the Autumn of 1942
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And the Allies pull out of France and reinforce their ASW in the Atlantic.
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Rommel advances through Kasserine pass and kicks the Allies out of Eastern Algeria and the Axis continue to hold the British in Egypt.
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Winter 1942 - the Germans advance to the gates of Stalingrad and Moscow on the Russian Front. The Japanese take the Philippines in the Pacific.
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The Americans redeploy their fleet off the coast of Australia. Patton pushes the Germans back out of Algeria.
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In the Winter of 1942 - the Allies building up in Englandm the American fleet advances into the Solomon Sea, and the Chinese take back Kwangtung.
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In Southeast Asia things went better. I took Singapore, Hong Kong, the Dutch East Indies and isolated the Philippines. Monty and Rommel continue their test of wills at El alemein.
How did the Japanese player end up with two air units in Singapore when there isn't an airbase there?
Craig
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In the Winter of 1942 - the Allies building up in Englandm the American fleet advances into the Solomon Sea, and the Chinese take back Kwangtung.
How is it that there is a Chinese infantry and marker in Northern FIC?
The rules state:
Chinese units may only operate in mainland China, Manchuria, Korea, Mongolia, Hong Kong, and Tibet.
Craig
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Hey Yoper - you are correct on all counts. That 2nd Japanese bomber should have been landed in Siam - not Singapore - as it was in the following Autumn turn picture. I may have forgotten to land it, or had not moved it yet when the picture was taken.
As for the Chinese - we tried a couple different things with them in this game for fun (like being able to build artillery and AA guns) - we also let them move into territories adjacent to China in Southeast Asia to see how it would work. None of these things are in the rules.
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I read about the extra units that they could build, but you hadn't talked about the movement restriction being lifted.
Craig
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Did it have a big influence on the game? I mean giving China more "tools" ?
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Hi Micoom,
There were several inter-related tweaks that we made in this game do to using the 'event driven' entry rules for the US that we wanted to try out. Most of them worked I believe.
I think giving China the ability to build artillery and AA as well as move outside of China is a bit too much. I think an appropriate adjustment might be to start them with an artillery and an AA gun (which they cannot replace) and still not let them move out of China.
I know a couple Chinese divisions operated in Burma during the war - but it was pretty limited. Chiang wanted to conserve as much of his army as he could for the big fight with Mao. If folks really wanted to let the Chinese move outside of China, I think it would have to be something like 3 units maximum or something.
The other thing we did, was to say that all of the Japanese units that start in Manchuria are frozen in Manchuria until the Russian garrison restrictions are lifted. So that made the Japanese in China a little weaker too.
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Ahhh, Springtime in the Med. . . What's this? Reinforcing Monty with some Yanks? That's not fair!
Meanwhile. . . on the Eastern Front. . .The German's decide to launch a panzer attack on their mechanized phase into Moscow! It was rather Kursk-like - all those nice tanks up against bunkers and AT guns. . . I really thought the Germans had a shot - but they rolled horribly and the Russians smoked them. After one round of combat, the Fuhrer called it off and retreated the armor in between Moscow and Leningrad. . . that should give the Russians something to think about. . . the Germans dropped a paratrooper back in Kazan too - in order to prevent any rail movement up to Moscow or Leningrad. . . very sneaky indeed. . .
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The Japanese decide to reinforce Rabaul and make a stand in the Bismarck Sea. The stage is set for a major naval showdown. . . unless the Americans flinch.
All is quiet on the Western front.
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The Kriegsmarine has sortied again to wipe out some destroyer and transport trying to reinforce the British position in Norway. . . In North Africa, Rommel is running out of armies to fight with. . . maybe its time to recall him to Berlin for a rest period. . . at least the Italian fleet and the Luftwaffe are keeping the Brits at bay.
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The Allies launch an amphibious assault behind John's famous "Graziani line" cutting it out of supply. They also land a whole mess of reinforcements for Monty. . . where does he get so many wonderful toys - our poor Italians are eating shoe leather in their bunkers waiting for the inevitable barrage to begin. . .
And, Todd does not flinch - and we have a major naval engagement in the Bismarck Sea. . .
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Mark- Great job with the pics! I feel like I was there!
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Yea very nice pics !
Nice weekend :D
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The battle of the Bismarck Sea. . . also known as the "Great New Britain Turkey Shoot" was a decisive American victory. Though the Japanese outnumbered the US in airpower, 7 out of 8 Japanese fighter groups were wiped out in the battle to only about 3 US fighters. . .The Japanese fleet withdraws to replenish and recover.
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Summer of 1943
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North Africa in the Summer of 1943
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The U.S. bypass Rabaul and take Truk. The British build up in Burma for an offensive into Siam.
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The Graziani line falls! Allied strength in North Africa continues to build. . .This may be the last message received from our Axis headquarters in Tripoli - but hey we held out in NA until well into 1943 - not too shabby!
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The end of the Summer 1943 turn in Western Europe. . . looks like we forgot to take a shot of the Eastern Front in Summer - will have to catch you up in the Autumn. . .
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Autumn 1943 - The Axis withdraw into Tripolitania for a last stand in North Africa and reinforce Italy to defend Fortress Europa in the Med.
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I have to catch you up on the Summer of 1943 Eastern Front. Since Panzer Armee Ost was located between Moscow and Leningrad and the Russians could only build - but not rail more support into those cities - Stalin was on the horns of a dilemma - he did not have enough forces availabe to defend both Moscow and Leningrad - so he placed his builds mostly in Moscow and hoped for the best. The German's managed to take Leningrad and then surround the Russian army in Moscow in the Autumn! Start playing the panzer march music - victory is going to be in our grasp!
Meanwhile, the Germans continue to build up the Western Front. . .
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Autumn 1943 - Allied Turn: The Allies continue to build up in the UK. And. . . its the end of Axis presence in North Africa as Monty and Patton meet up and shake hands in Tripoli. . .I wonder which one fought through the Germans to get there first. . .
Meanwhile - the Soviets easily break through the light German ring around Moscow and build up their reserves
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Nearly all of the US production has been poured into Europe the last couple turns - so the advance in the Pacific has stalled somewhat. The US fleet advances and the air units tangle with the Japanese - but neither side pursues a major surface action.
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The Southwest Pacific and the Asian mainland in Winter 1943
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The last hurah of the Axis navies. . The Bismarck slices off the Atlantic which has the effect of preventing any strategic movement from the US or NA to Europe - and will probably prevent any Allied invasion on their half of the turn - but its survival is unlikely - at least they will have died gallantly. The Italian navy sorties to attack a lightly defended Allied fleet of transports in the Western Med.
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The Axis continue to build their defenses in Italy. . .Meanwhile. . . with the victory point level down into the 30's and getting ready to drop 4 a turn - the Germans go for broke in Russia and throw all their weight against Moscow and take it! However, the Russians retreat their army to a position that threatens to take back Leningrad - so the Germans are forced to friendly mech move most of their force back out of Moscow to help defend Leningrad
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The Allies launch nother moderate invasion of Normandy in Winter 1943 and continue to build reserves in the Med as well.
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Another shot of the Med. . .and on the Russian front, the Soviets retake Moscow and the German forces are beginning to look a little thin. .
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I can't believe the Graziani line fell! :'(
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Spring 1944: The Japanese prepare the defenses of the home islands, China and the Philippines
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Spring 1944: The Germans launch a ferocious counterattack and drive the Allied landings back into the sea! The Germans follow-up their success by redeploying their heavy armor formations and other reserves to France to prevent any follow up invasions. . .
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Spring 1944 - building up defenses in the "soft underbelly"
Meanwhile, on the Russian front. . . The Germans decide to go for broke and throw everything they have at Moscow in an effort to secure the 3 VPs and try and win the game. It is a Battle of the Bulge like offensive in which we scrape the bottom of the barrel to throw everything we have in one big gamble. . . and fail. . .The remnants of Panzer Armee Ost withdraws and things look grim on the Eastern Front. . .
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Allied turn - In the Pacific, the Allies tighten the ring around Japan - but without additional reinforcements, they do not secure any additonal victory points.
In Europe, in a brilliant move, the old "bait and switch". . .Having drawn the German reserves off into France, the Allies launch the "real" invasion onto the beaches of Holland! The Germans may not have enough forces in the ruhr to launch a successful counterattack. . .
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at the same time: The Italians surrender; the Americans land in Northern Italy; and the Russian's blast away what is left of Armee Group Center facing Moscow. . . Spring 1944 may be decisive in Europe. . .maybe the Germans should not have gambled on the last ditch offensive on Moscow?
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It looks like from the pics and play-by-play that if you were using the modified Italian collapse rules the Italians would only be in the -3 to -5 range and would still be on the board.
And you would still have the next step to go through before actually losing the Italians.
Craig
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We did not play with the Italian optional rule - I think it needs a bit more work. Frankly, I was very happy the Italians lasted into 1944!
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Summer, 1944. . .Japanese Kamikazes manage t sink one of the US carrier groups and a Japanese surface force manages to chase the Allied fleet away from the Philippines.
I forgot to mention that the Japanese launched the Yamato a couple turns ago - but the moment it left port, a swarm of American torpedo planes blew it out of the water - so it was a bit of a non-event for us Japanese and was hushed up in the papers. . .
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Summer 1944 - The Germans concentrate all available forces in Belgium and the Rhur to deal with the Allied invasion of Holland. The Germans also pull out of Southern Italy to deal with the American landings in Northern Italy.
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On the Eastern Front, the German's reinforce Army Group Center with whatever we can get our hands on and Army Group North digs in around Leningrad for the reverse siege. . .
In the Pacific, the Allied Naval air forces bomb the Japanese fleet and shoot down what planes we had left.
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On the Russian front, the Soviet's paradrop over the Dnepr and rush forward the only mechanized units they have - Katyusha rockets - and manage to put what is left of Army Group South out of supply.
In the Med, the Allies follow up their invasion of Northern Italy by landing more tanks than the Germans can count
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Summer 1944: The Allies reinforce their Dutch beachhead (note the blow-up box at the top of the map. . .)
Autumn 1944 - the Germans are really forced to counterattack or the situation is just going to get worse. But are forced to retreat back to the Ruhr after only one round - luck was not on their side. . .But now they have their new wonder weapons - Me262s - maybe they will turn the tide?
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Autumn 1944 - The Germans manage to counterattack and fall back on the Russian front. In the Pacific the Japanese face increasing pressure in China - and it is the last sortie of the IJN - in a desperate attempt to keep the Americans away from Japan.
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Autumn 1944 - in the Pacific: American marines that have been building up away from the front start their offensive first by mopping up some isolated VP garrisons and landing in the Philippines. The British fleet joins the Americans in the Pacific and Allied naval aircraft launch attacks against what is left of the Japanese fleet.
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I guess we did not take a final picture in Germany. . . it was 2am after all! But, the Allies launched their attack into the Ruhr, they had a lot of armor and the Germans rolled a bit sub-par (my generals were demorilized no doubt). It was clear after one round of combat that the Allies would have enough force to mech attack into Berlin and end the game. So, John borded a u-boat and sailed off for Argentina and that was that.
The game became an uphill battle for the Axis and the Allies did not make many mistakes. some of the things that contributed to the Axis defeat were:
- 1) I think we tweaked China a little bit too much - that theater sucked in a lot of Japan's resources
2) Failed Mech attack into Paris in Spring 1940 - cost us a bunch of armor
3) Failed invasion attampt of Gibraltar - cost us points, men and time in the Med
4) Excellent force balance of the Brits in the Med, Asia and England - they kept just enough force to prevent a decisive German breakthrough anywhere.
5) Lack of an earlier u-boat offensive - allowed the Brits to build up too much.
6) Japan did not invest enough in its airpower early on - that really cost us later when we lost every air engagement we fought.
7) The Russian front was very tough defensive nut to crack - excellent play on Joe's part. Despite all the armor resources John threw into Russia - they bent but did not break.
8) The Axis should have went over to the defensive earlier in Russia. Instead we threw every last guy we had into last ditch offensives - in the end, we ran out of resources to slow the Allied advance down when we needed to.
9) The bait and switch landings in Normandy and the Holland put the final nail into the Axis coffin.
Look forward to the next one!
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I would have to agree with your points.
Argentina is nice this time of year... ;D
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On the picture Spring 1942 and summer 1942 one question came up.
How do the german tanks move so far ? I mean is not max 2 movement points (one normal and one mech)?
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Hey Darkman - yes -tanks only get to move one in the regular movement phase and then one again during the mech phase. Are you referring to the reply #35 picture? Not sure which armor move you are referring to. In Summer 1942, the Germans attacked out of the Crimea into the Kuban and then mech moved just South of Stalingrad - is that the move you are referring to?
Mark
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ok ok forget it :P i didnt saw the straight argh :P
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Russian Spring 1942 followed by the German Summer offensive
It's hard to make sure, but in the German Eastern Front Spring '42 turn (photo #35), it looks like the Germans could have surrounded the big Russian stack down south. It looks like they could have dropped a paratrooper from the bend in the Dnepr to the province north of Stalingrad, and then sealed the pocket with mech moves (and which they almost did as it was). It looks like there's a paratrooper and bomber available from the German force in the Dnepr - hard to be sure from the photo. It doesn't appear there's any defending fighters to have stopped the move either.
I'm probably missing something on the photo, but do the Eastern Front guys remember the situation?
dd