Rules Questions - Advanced game v5_2012

[Gamer John]

Hello again, we've come up with more items (Europe & Pacific) needing clarification:
1.  Naval transports do not need to disembark units after any strat move, correct, whether during combat or non-combat moves?  But, if they make a tactical move, they must disembark all cargo?
2.  If transports disembark after a tactical move, they must all go to one spot, but if they disembark after a strategic move, they could go to any adjacent land area?
3.  Strategic bombing limts - they can cause bomb damage up to x2 if factory is in a home country, is that x2 on the base value or x2 of the base value plus 2 (if it's a +2 space as in Germany), or is it both of those and also x2 of any added factory built there?
4.  Which Russian units are actually winterized, since none have white on them?  It appears it's only the shock infantry.  But, since the Russians actually made winter offensives every year, and in fact that was the time they had the tactical advantage, wouldn't it make sense that ALL Russian units be considered winterized?
5.  We ran into a situation where we needed to know the definition of "enemy occupied territory".  We assume it's not enemy occupied if the owner of the space is friendly.  If the defender is attacked, that power is still the owner till he is forced to withdraw, right, so it's NOT enemy occupied?  Or is the attacker also considered to be occupying the territory pending resolution of the ground combat, so it's both friendly and enemy occupied?  The background to the question comes from the defender moving up naval transports with reinforcing ground units and having to fight a naval combat in the sea area.  Do those ground units disembark immediately because the land area is NOT enemy occupied, or must they wait till the end of combat round 1 to disembark, or till the conclusion of the naval combat - which they must win in order to still be there to disembark?  This kind of sequencing would benefit from having an example in the rules.
6.  We note that air ranges, especially for heavy bombers doing strategic bombing, are far less than was the case historically.  American bombers have no means to attack eastern Germany, Hungary or Ploesti.  Yet in the Pacific part of the game their ranges are much greater (in mileage terms) due to the scale.  Will you be making some provision for added European range, at least for strategic bombing?
Thanks again for your help,
John

[Mark]

Hi John - some good detailed questions - and we will get at it to clarify better in the next version of the rules.

1&2) The naval transport rules have changed a couple times over the course of the last 5 years - so some of the edits perhaps have not been all caught and updated throughout the rules.  When moving strategically (6 spaces) transports need to pick up all from one spot.  moving tactically (2 spaces), they can move & then pick up if they need to.  For both strategic and tactical, transports must stop in the sea zone they disembark from and drop their cargo all in one territory.

3) x2 of the total value of the national territory.  So if it is a 6+2 Germany territory, it can be bombed for 16.

4) Only the shock units (and mountain units) are considered winterized.  True, Russia did a lot of attacking in Winter, but they are still penalized for Winter attacks.

5) I think the text needs to be edited in the rulebook here again as well.  The intent is the following: 

A) If you move into a sea zone with enemy combat ships in it, you have conclude the naval battle before landing troops into friendly or enemy owned territories. 

B) If you move into an empty sea zone, you may disembark troops immediately onto an adjacent friendly owned land territory (before the next chit and potentially enemy ships move into the sea zone).

C) If you move into an empty sea zone, you must wait to disembark troops onto an enemy owned territory until after movement is completed (all chits drawn & sub & air movement).  Therefore, if enemy naval surface combat units move into the sea zone after you, you need to finish the naval combat before disembarking onto the enemy owned territory.

D) If you move into an empty sea zone, you must wait to disembark troops onto an enemy owned territory until after movement is completed (all chits drawn & sub & air movement). If only enemy planes attack your naval units, you may not disembark units into the enemy owned territory until after the first round of air-naval combat.  After the first round, units on transports are considered disembarked and air-naval combat continues against the naval units and the now empty transports.

6) You note correctly - and I wish you could see the pile of '5' range heavy bomber counters that have been made, used, not used, used again, not used over the years.  This is one of the challenges of an area movement game and trying to combine two theaters of very different scales.  A range of '4' works well for the most part in the Pacific (Japan in range of Saipan).  In the end, we opted to be consistent with '4' for Europe as well.  However, a range of '5' actually works better for Europe.  That way bombers based in Southern Italy could hit Ploesti and Hungary and bombers in the UK could hit Munich.  I understand one of the reasons Hitler wanted to take Crete was to prevent the allies from bombing Ploesti from Crete as well (which is 5 spaces away).  So, if this is bugging your gaming group, I would make heavies have a range of 5 in Europe for strategic bombing and 4 in the Pacific.

[Gamer John]

Hi again, Mark and John,
We came across some more contentious rules, for mech movement/combat.

If a regular combat fails, the leaders and ground units must retreat and cannot move in the mech phase.  The air units remain in the space till the air return phase, correct?  Or do they also retreat?  Then in the mech phase, if different mech units/leaders move in, can those previously used air units assist in that attack?

Also, there may already be a rules clarification on this, do we allow transport planes to make para-drops in the mech phase if they did not move in the regular move phase.  Thoughts?

Observation – we have found the protracted effort needed to conquer some minors is unrealistic and consumes ahistorical resources and time (think Spain, Norway).  Every other game has minors surrender when capital is taken, we’ve switched that to surrender when all factory spaces are taken.  We’re also pondering the vast garrison needs – a whole army to garrison Spain, more than France requires!  No solution there yet, but again would be interested in your thoughts.

John

[Mark]

Hi John!  The next revision of the rules is currently getting edited and I should be able to post and send out in the next week or so.

The questions you have below are addressed - here is the current take on both:

Like ground and naval units, air units retreat into an adjacent space when retreated from a battle – regardless of airbase capacity concerns.  Planes are not “landed” at the conclusion of a battle and are also allowed to retreat into enemy owned territories if a player wishes.  Players should note when retreating planes from a battle that at the conclusion of the mechanized phase, planes need to be in range of a friendly owned territory with airbase capacity for the planes to land. Air units of the side that was victorious in the land or sea battle remain in the space the battle took place in at the conclusion of this phase.

Note that mechanized units (and blitz leaders) that retreat from a battle during the regular combat phase are not allowed to move during the mechanized movement phase. Air units that retreat from a battle may still move during the mechanized movement phase (see mechanized movement rules, below).

From the Mechanized Movement Section:

Mechanized units (including Blitz leaders) may NOT move in the mechanized phase if they retreated from a battle during the regular combat phase. Additionally, mechanized units (and Blitz leaders) may not move during the mechanized movement phase if they were moved via naval transport (either tactically or strategically) on the regular movement phase.

Air units move at the same time ground units move in the mechanized phase.  During the mechanized phase, air units may move again to support mechanized battles in an adjacent space from where they are currently located.  Planes may only move adjacent to support mechanized battles during this phase, other plane movement is prohibited. Note that since planes did not ‘land’ at the conclusion of the regular combat phase, planes that supported battles during the regular phase should still be located in the space the battle took place during the earlier phase (or retreated to a space adjacent to where battles took place during the regular phase).

With respect to Paratroopers under air movement:

Transport planes may only move during the regular movement phase.  They may not move or react during the mechanized movement phase.

Also - from the mechanized movement section:

Planes can not attack enemy airbases or attack naval units, during the mechanized movement phase – the only battles they may participate in during this phase are mechanized battles. Transport planes may not move during the mechanized phase. Naval units do not move during the mechanized movement phase.

We removed the ability for paratroopers to move on the mech phase as we thought it was giving paras too much flexibility and power and were getting used for a-historical things.

With respect to the garrison rules - we think they work pretty well.  It abstracts the need for garrisons and the commitment and drain on resources do to partisans. it may be reasonable to assume a garrison of space that requires 8 units (about 16 divisions) or 4 units (8 divisions) for Norway. 

I can see your point on the factory space being taken results in the surrender of minors.  I think we played with the rules like this in the past and changed it to all PP territories.  Now I can't recall why we changed it to PP territories.  I'll have to talk to the rest of the players to jog my memory.  I think it is a reasonable adjustment to make it the factory territories, however.

Your comments on garrisons and minor surrender rules make me think that your Axis are having a tough time expanding in 1940-41 - or are running low on units?  Is that the case?  What is happening in your games in the early war?

thanks,
Mark

[Gamer John]

Hi, Mark, responding to your question as to what is happening in early game to Axis, for our second game the Germans elected to delay the start of war in Russia till Spring42 to see if they could suppress/invade Britain and build up their strength using Spain/Portugal.  By next week we'll see how Britain plays out, one result will be early entry of US, another should be Axis conquest of Mid-East, but we worry that there'll be precious few ground forces available for Russia due to heavy garrison demands in the west (Spain, Portugal, France).
Thanks for your responses on rules.
John

[Mark]

Hi John - I think, unless the Germans take the UK out or all of the middle east and trigger Turkey -  they might be in trouble.   

I played the Allies once against a similar German approach and actually lost England due to a successful Sea Lion but the German losses (in both units and time) meant that I could carry on with just Russia, the Commonwealth and the US.

In the end, the Axis won (they successfully triggered Turkey, which helped them - and it was just too much for me to take back in the time frame); but it was a tight game for a while.

In your game, I think the Germans will be in trouble on the Russian Front - but perhaps, if they set the Western Allies back far enough, they might win on VPs in the long run if the Western Allies just can't return to the offensive until too late.

cheers,
mark

[Gamer John]

Hi, Mark, we're still playing. it's been Struggles continuously for going on five months now.  And inevitably, some rules come along that need clarification.  Here are two that tied us up in knots:
1.  After a successful ground attack that cleared an area in one round, the attacker wanted not to occupy the area but to retreat to the space he came from.  Is that permissible, and if so are there any circumstances that would limit this ability to retreat with some or all attackers?
2.  A force that was out of supply attacked, and after one round wanted to retreat to a friendly land area that was IN supply, but of course this meant that the force had in effect penetrated the screen around it and moved through the encircling forces.  This seemed a bit unfair, it was suggested that the attacker should have to fight the full four rounds before being permitted to do this.  But this would mean that most out of supply situations would result in destruction of the surrounded force.  What is the rule please?

The game is as intriguing as ever.  We're just starting to explore the nuances of the Pacific.
Thanks,
John