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WWII: Struggle for Europe____WWII: Struggle for Asia => After Action Reports / Playtesting => Topic started by: Darkman on September 05, 2011, 10:25:27 PM
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Hello all :-)
we finally had a chance to do a 4 player game of the europe map.
Our progress was very slow(everyone had to understand the new rules first) so we only made 6 rounds. (Winter 1940) now.
I hope we have a faster progress when we play next time.
I made a lot of pictures , but i'm not at home now.
Germany launched an attack on Norway from the beginning and conqurered Norway completely in winter 39
The soviets tried to win the finish war.. but they did a bad job.. Finnland did not lose any troops and killed a lot of soviets.
Bad luck :) Now they can't attack any longer because finnland is now Axis
Germany(Myself) lost more troops in Poland than i hoped but the france campaign was a very easy job. Only small casualties. Britain did not send any troops for help.
Battle over Britain was a disaster for the RAF. Britain missed to build fitghers for defense. Even a invasion to england was planned, but time is running out for that. Germany and Italy decided to ignore greece and yugoslavia for a massive attack on the soviet union.
britains plan was to move many troops to france africa and to invade undefended italy on the next turn (emtpy territories). But then vichy was triggered and the british navy was attacked and had to retreat.. 3 inf and 2 tanks had to surrender infrance africa, or they would trigger war with vichy..and vichy has aLOT ships.
The only success yet the allies have .. they attacked the italian convoy , and alot axis troops in north africa are out of supply.
It looks like soviet union is planning to do some traps for germany. Building panzer divisions in the south with blitz commander while building many bunkers around moscow. I hope stukas will be a good answer ;D
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Sounds like a pretty interesting start to a game - I am looking forward to the pictures when yo get home!
Not invading Greece and Yugoslavia will give the Brits some additional sympathetic production points from those two countries - but perhaps it will e worth it in order to concentrate on Moscow.
How is the U-boat war going - or is it something you have not decided to invest in?
Make sure the Soviet player knows he can only build 1 fort per turn before he is at war - per the Soviet country production card.
Are the rules and game working out ok for everyone - or have you run into any problems or rules that you do not agree with?
thanks!
Mark
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Hello Mark :-) We will play again tomorrow !
The Uboat war is going fine at the moment. 1 Ace got killed but Germany has 6 Uboats at the moment , while 2 others are completed end of turn 6
Soviet player knows he can only built 1 per turn , and so he did :) But still a nice defense line.
A rule i don't agree at the moment.
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We made a house rule , that ships can be repaired only in fortified harbors. It need to be in supply to a homeland.. but for example , germany can also repair their ships in france harbors and so on.
Newly built ships can be placed in homeland harbors aswell. Makes sense to me.
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A second rule i would love to see is that historically , finnland , romania and bulgaria switched sides once liberated, and fought against the germans. We don't have this :)
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Some pictures :)
With the begin of Spring 1940 Turn
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More from Spring 1940 (Phase I)
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The actors :) Allies , Soviet Union, Italy.. i forgot myself :-)
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Beginning Summer 1940
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More Summer 1940
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Beginning Autumn 1940
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Forgot to make pictures of Beginning Winter 1940.. will do it before we start tomorrow :)
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I hope the Soviet player doesn't get too excited. If he jumps for joy, he will knock himself out on that low ceiling! :o :o :o
That map is soooooo sexy!!!
We are playing a '39 scenario in the base game and it just isn't as glorious as this map is. It still is better than most other games though. ;D
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Wow - great pics! Looks like an interesting game so far. . .
Will you get some German support for those poor Italians in the Med? Interesting to see the Brits build a few factories - that may help in the long run.
Too bad you guys did not have this game a year ago when I was living in Prague - I could have slipped over the border for a weekend of gaming!
I hope you enjoy it - let us know how the next round goes!
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Too bad you guys did not have this game a year ago when I was living in Prague - I could have slipped over the border for a weekend of gaming!
Are you finally back in the States now? I just thought that you were still "commuting" to the USA to get your gaming fix?
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He's not back yet for good... Maybe for Christmas. Great pics!! Taking out Norway fast is smart - good set up for Barbarossa. Russians are tough!!!
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Yeah, I moved from Prague to China! But am looking forward to being hope in December - TWO games John - you hear me?
With respect to the Franconia game - I like that Soviet fort line in front of Moscow and Leningrad - am looking forward to the showdown pics on the Russian front!
Darkman - you guys probably are already doings this, but we usually let the Italian player take over all Western front operations once the Russian front gets kicked off, as the Eastern Front is a full time job for one axis player. When we play, we usually have one Axis player taking care of the Med and Western front playing against the Allied player, while another Axis player is playing head to head with the Soviet player - may help things go a little faster.
Looking forward to the next update!
Mark
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Soviet fort line - great defense! - Mark didn't you do something like that during the last game?
Yes - 2 games for sure! I am still reeling from the last crushing defeat!
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Yeah, I moved from Prague to China! But am looking forward to being hope in December - TWO games John - you hear me?Â
Mark
I am usually "despair" for the holidays, but to each his own. :P
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Intresting Mark . we didn't play like that but after we played the second time.. we thought the same.. It's really a fulltime job to play the eastern front , and the italian player is bored because he waits so long.
But it will make the game harder for the axis.. two people , two different strategies.. that didn'T work quite well in history :p
We played 3 more turns.. then the day was over :o)Â Very time consuming. We will do it next time , like you.. thanks! Any more hints to speed up the game turns ?:)
Will post some pictures soon.
Germany did some respectful damage to great britain.. (1 light carrier sunk by submarine attack) and GB lost a lot planes in england and mediterrain. All new GB production goes to airforce at the moment.(4 fighters)
4 question came up this time..the rules don't say something about it.
1. Does a Port attack last only one round like airbase bombing ? And if how is retreating working for the navy. To the open Sea or another sea zone or does it last only one round and no retreat is possible?
2. Does Submarine Interdiction also work on ships moving into the sea zone or out.. or only ships that move through that sea zone?
3. When a submarine attacks a carrier in sub movement. and there is no destroyer present. What happens with the plane if the carrier is sinking.. In the old game there was a first strike ability for submarines.
  Logically the plane would have no chance to react and rescue his plane / planes.. he could'nt know that a submarine is attacking.. ? I would understand that he can rescue his plane if there is a real naval Â
  battle or a asw roll.. but not if there is no asw roll.
4. What happens with the neutral greece income for the allies if there is no supply route to a GB zone.? is it lost?
Italy and Britain had some nice sea battles but both only damaged ships from the other side. Rommel landed in africa and the axis are marching to alexandria. Gb is moving many troops to africa and many medium bombers.
On the russian front i would say all is fine for the axis. It was a great start of a eastern campaign in my opinion. The soviet union forces were overrun with only minimal casualties. 35 infantry divisions and 3 fighters were killed.(Soviet player didn'T want to lose any armor so he switched them with only inf on the frontline) Germany lost 2-3 inf divisions and 2 panzergrenadiers. Soviet player still says it all going like he planned. I feel mighty , but i know how fast it can turn the tables on the eastern front.
Murmansk is out of supply and Archangel was captured by german paratroopers.
It is now Autumn 1941 and guderian is in smolensk with a mighty panzer divison. Other troops are waiting for the infantry. Fearing a Counteroffensive of the soviets. Estonia and Vitebsk were alreads captured but germany retreated back and waiting for reinforcements, before the soviets strike back. In the south everything works fine. German forces standing next to Kharkov and the soviets only have 3 divisions in the south.
At the moment if feels like .." with some morer pressure i can beat the soviets totally"
But we all know the winter is coming and soviets get some nice winterized troops. I don't like moving into traps :-)
There are only two options.. a massive attack on moscow or divding forces and capturing as many as we can... the okw still thinks about it ;)
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Hi Darkman - great summary
I think it is a fun aspect of the game that players have to work together to execute their strategy. The German player can tell the Western Front / Italian player what he would like to do, but it is up to the theatre commander to execute the plan. It adds a bit of a role-playing element to the game.
Once you align the Western and Eastern Front players, they can each draw their movement chits at their own pace which will help move things along. The other thing we sometimes do is that if one front gets done before the other, the players can help resolve the battles on the remaining front. For example, if the Western front finishes up movement and combat before it is completed on the Russian front, they culd help the Eastern front players resolved some of their combats.
With respect to the rules questions below:
1.) Port attacks can last multiple rounds. If the ships want to retreat, they retreat into the sea zone the port is in (out of the port, into the open sea zone) and combat is over. If enemy ships are present in the sea zone, it triggers another combat.
2.) Submarines may initiate interdiction combat when ships leave, enter or move through their sea zone.
3.) On page 12 - if a transport or carrier is sunk by a sub, all the units or planes on the carrier/transport are eliminated as well.
4.) If there is no open line of supply from Greece to the Western Allies, then the Western Allies cannot collect the sympathetic extra income from Greece.
Thanks for pointing these questions out - i will add the clarifications to the rules.
Sounds like the Eastern front is playing out pretty well so far. Both sides sound like they are playing a little conservative :) What is Soviet income level like? Did they build a lot of additional factories before the war? Are they moving their factories out of harms way? Sounds like to you sealed off the Murmansk convoy route - is the U.S. giving them PP via the Eastern or Persian convoy routes?
Looking forward to the next round of pics!
mark
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We made a house rule , that ships can be repaired only in fortified harbors. It need to be in supply to a homeland.. but for example , germany can also repair their ships in france harbors and so on.
Newly built ships can be placed in homeland harbors aswell. Makes sense to me.
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A second rule i would love to see is that historically , finnland , romania and bulgaria switched sides once liberated, and fought against the germans. We don't have this
Hi Darkman - I like the rule regarding repairing ships in supplied fortified harbors - I think we'll incorporate that in the next revision of the rules.
As far as some of the minor Allies switching sides, I am not sure if it is necessary. I think their role on the Allies side late in the war was pretty negligible and by this point in the game (mid-44), a couple of additional minor infantry are not going to make much of a difference. If you think about it abstractly, the 3 PP the Soviets gain from occupying Romania enables them to build an additional 2-3 infantry unit - which you could consider as a Romanian unit, for example.
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Yeah the Bismarck tried to reach a france harbor for repair :P we all know it failed -)
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it's not only the axis minors.. once vichy collapesed didn't morocco and algiers switched side and troops fought against axis while tunisia stayed axis (axis troops arrived there, i think thats why)
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More pictures as promised :)
Begin winter 40/41
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more begin winter 40/41
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Spring 41
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Begin Summer 41
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Begin Summer 41
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Begin Summer 1941
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Begin Summer 1941
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The fight... =)
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Begin Autumn 41
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Begin Autumn 1941
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Begin Autumn 1941
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Thats where we stand at the moment.. playing autumn 1941 next time we meet. One axis player will try western europe and italy while myself will try the beat russian front.
2 vs 2 i hope :)Â we only played with 3 player last time , thats why we were a bit slow... (only 3 rounds as i wrote earlier)
I can't say something about lend lease Mark.. we didn't play the income phase of autumn 1941 yet.. before that the usa never did lend lease to britain. Before i forget the factory in Kharkov is still there .. fog of war i think :o)
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Wow - Looks like a VERY interesting game - hope you guys are having fun!
It appears the Germans have made a brilliant Falschirmjager assault on Archangel knocking Murmansk out of supply with the help of the Kriegsmarine. Will be interesting to see how the Soviets respond in the Autumn.
Also, with Rommel in the Desert, the British position in Egypt looks like it could be in trouble.
Both the Germans and the Russians look to be light on infantry on the Russian front, it will be interesting to see how that effects battles in the Autumn and how the game will develop.
How did the Italian infantry make it to Dneperotovsk in the Summer? I think it is three spaces away from the Nazi-Soviet Pact border - I may have missed something though.
Can't wait till you guys play again and post more pics!
Mark
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Yeah. Soviet Union didn't attack romania before they joined axis.. so we applied the same rule like finnland. So troops were able to start behind the "nazi border in romania" Wouldn't that be historical ? :)
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Wow - Great pics and great game! That is quite the Soviet fort border in the North! How is the sub warfare going?
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Susb warfare is going good . german subs sank a light carrier with airplane on it 2 rounds ago. Convoy damage is medium at the moment. Subs will try to do some interdiction now . hopefully they can stop britain to send more troops into africa
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Cool - they are great to create threats. Forcing allies to slow movement to non combat phases only or spending PPs to create ASW protection for active fleets...
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Did the Germans airlift a Finnish infantry unit into Archangel during the non-combat phase?
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@ Mark Yes they did. Was it wrong?
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No - not at all - just a good grasp of the game mechanics for your first game. I'm impressed
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:-) I just love your game! One day we all play a match together!!
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Thanks! I'll drag John to Germany with me so maybe i will have a chance to win against you guys. . .
By the way - I like the posters you have on the wall behind the game - good to propaganda to keep everyone's morale up for those long gaming days. . .
I also like how the Soviet player has all of his good replacement leaders already out on the table waiting to replace all of his early war generals as quickly as possible. . .
Finally, I like that your Italian player is always smiling. . . typical. . . Does he also drink wine while he plays?
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Thx ;D More Propaganda Posters are ready, i just have to hang them on the wall.
No he only drinks water... but hey.. mabye it is wine =)
Yeah Mark you both are welcome! :-) We really have to do that!
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Sure - trip to Germany - I'm in!
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It has been All Quiet on the Fanconian Front for a while. . .what's the status of the game? Have you guys not been able to play or did someone give up?
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Yeah you are right´, We all had no time to come together. But maybe in november the axis forces are trying to start a large winter offensive.. Lets hope for the axis that the snow is not coming soon like in 1941.. :)
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Mike and I may be able to get together later this week - I should be able to get some photos in...
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The war goes on!! On November the 7th :)
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OK - Keep us posted!
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By the way which one is the right Victory and Defeat Table ? The one printed on the map or the one printed on the sheet.. they are different...
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Use the sheet
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We played another 3 turns. Will post the pictures tomorrow :)
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8)
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Waiting anxiously for the pics on the next few turns - what happened? Did the Germans conquer Russia?
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Yeah sorry for that , was a bit busy and lazy lately. Will try to upload them on the next days.. we were only able to do 3 turns.. we still play stooo long on a turn.. i didn't stick the counters to the minatures.. i guess thats a big timekiller.
Atm i think about removing the counters at all.. just playing with the minatures.. i dont like to stick them to counters somehow.
The germans stand before moscow and stalingrad. Still having air superiority but got pushed back in finnland to finish-soviet borders. One mistake is enough to end the offensive campaign..
Rommel failed in Africa and had to retreat back to tobruk.
The forces in africa are still equal but the allies landed in morrocco and vichy was removed.
A large second front is approaching.
Britain also won a large sea battle against the kriegsmarine. The Tirpitz is destroyed and many ships are damaged.
Summary: The time of victories is almost over..`the third reich prepares for doomsday
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Well - remember - time is on your side - you are playing against the clock- the Germans need to try to hold out - do better than they did historically...
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I know :) I just feel sad about my east campaign :P
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I have been there many times - but the nature of the game changes - now the pressure is on the allies to perform - you have to play defensive - unless opportunity presents itself....
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Here are the promised pictures .. showing always the end of the turn.
Starting with end of Autumn 1941
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more
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more
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:)
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:)
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End of Winter 1941
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:)
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;)
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;)
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8)
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:D
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end of spring 1942
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8)
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;D
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;D
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The allied player had no time this day.. so the russian player did his job. He played the whole allies.. hopefully next time we are again at full strength :) It was very time consuming for us all
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one question came up this match
once a territory is conquered.. how far can a airplane retreat that was attacked in this territory on a air base attack? range ? or 2x range?
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Hi Darkman - only its range. If it can't make it anywhere on its printed range it is eliminated.
I know the rules are not the best organized, but I think it is in the rules under retreating (Ground combat) like around page 20:
Air units can retreat a maximum of their movement range. If there are no friendly territories or aircraft carriers of the same nationality for them to land in that range, they are eliminated instead.
Your game looks very interesting - sorry it is taking you guys so long to play through it! Hope you are all still enjoying it!
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Its my mistake that it takes so long :'( i should have sticked the counters and pieces together.. maybe i will do it sooner or later
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Another question.
If a australian infantry is occupying alexandria i guess the pp goes to the commonwealth? What happens after 1942? Does canada get the PP? :)
And what happens to the indian convoy route in europe only scenario after 1942. Is it no longer attackable?
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PP goes to flagged nation on territory if it is occupied by a friendly nation - so UK get it.
Indian convoy is no longer attackable in Spring 42
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We continue the battle on 3th january. :-) Another rule question. "no attacking or defending Unit can have their Combat value reduced below 1 due to Terrain and supply" is their any Way at all that a Unit has a 0 Combat value ?
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We just played two games over 3 days! The first game ended early with an Allied victory. The Axis just took too many losses taking out France and The Italians lost North Africa and almost all of their fleet by the end of 1940. Given the direction the game was headed, the Axis threw in the towel at the end of 1940 and sued for peace.
The second game was epic. We had to end it after the Summer of 1944 turn without a definitive winner, but probably the Axis would have held enough VPs by the Winter of 1944 to win the game. The Allies were on the continent in Normandy as well as Sicily and the Russians had taken Minsk and had just broken through the German lines on the Dnepr and liberated Kiev. But, the Italians were still in the game and the Germans still had very powerful armies in Russia and France. I think even though the Allies were beginning to drive the Axis back, we were not doing it fast enough to stay ahead of the victory point level. But it was VERY close - so much so we called it a draw since we could not play it to the final conclusion.
I hope you guys have a blast on January 3rd! Please give us an update with pics when you can!
cheers,
Mark
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Correct - no unit can go below 1.
It was an epic great game! I actually can't wait to play again!
Have a great war on the 3rd!
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Summer 1942
Western Theatre
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Summer 1942
Eastern Theatre
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Wow great shots - I like the axis fleet off the coast of France - threatening the invasion fleet!