Axis Minors - Turkey and Spain

[Erc]

As experienced in our last few games, if the Axis get lucky on their activation die roll and bring either Turkey or Spain onto the Axis side, a close competitive game can quickly turn into a rout.   The addition of the German units, the extra PP and the opening of key strategic locations creates an immediate imbalance to the game.  Triggering Spain opens up Gibraltar while triggering Turkey opens up access to the Black Sea, Soviet Caucasus and the Middle East.

I would propose a more graduated process triggering of Spain and Turkey.  For example, when the Axis capture both Greece and Crete, instead of a 1 in 6 chance of Turkey joining the Axis, Turkey gives 1 PP to Germany.  This is similar to getting the 2 PP from Sweden when capturing the two Norwegian territories.

This could be continued such that for each additional 1 in 6 chance of a die roll trigger, Spain or Turkey sends an additional PP to Germany.  If they are already giving all their PP to Germany the next step would be the allow Axis naval units pass through the Bosporus in the case of Turkey or allowing Axis units to rail adjacent to Gibraltar.  Any further triggers after that would bring Spain or Turkey completely into the war on the Axis side.

[Yoper]

While Eric's idea may not be the exact system I would say should be used, I do agree that the system as it stands now is too basic and too imbalancing.

The Turkish entry can be deadly.

A more responsive and/or more gradual system is needed. 

Similar to what we have been talking about with the US/USSR entry and the Italian fall.

Craig

[John D.]

Hey guys,
   I am certainly open to anything that people would like to try out.

1) Turkey does make the Axis a more difficult opponent - but we have had MANY games in which they were triggered and the Allies won. Basically it ususally forces the Russians to build almost exclusively defensive early on.

2) Spain is a double edged sword. I almost would rather not trigger them as it opens up the WHOLE coast to attack. Too much to defend for the Axis - something always gives way when it comes to Spain. In my opinion - they are not worth the trouble.

Again - all of this is from my experience.

Any other suggestions?

John

[Mark]

I am open to any and all ideas.  We played a great game this last Saturday using the variable "card driven" entry rules for the US and Russia and it worked out very well - I think everyone enjoyed them.  I'll be posting pics from the game soon - ended in Winter 1944 or 2:30 AM depending on your frame of reference. . .winner to be announced later. . . I'll keep you in suspense.

As for triggers, I'm open to them being tweaked in the optional rules (just like the variable entry that I really like).  But, I like the drama of being able to get Turkey or Spain to join the Axis - I don't know if I would go out of my way to take Cyprus for example, if all it was going to buy me was a PP. But perhaps something more graduated is a good idea - maybe boost up the triggers a little - but the first time you get a trigger they only give you economic aid, on the second successful trigger, they join you and go to war - I don't know.

I agree with John though that I don't think Spain and Turkey are as war winning as you may think.  I have lost games as the Axis with both of them on my side.  I almost don't want Spain to join me (they open up too many points of entry for the allies and I usually overcommit myself to taking Gibraltar and then lose out on the ability to really deal with Russia).  Turkey can be really nice to have.  It forces the Russians into a tough spot - but if the Soviet act quick, concentrate on the Turks and then shift back to the Germans they can usually be dealt with.  But it does make for a bit more of a challenging game for the Allies.

Mark

[Doc Barber]

I've never been in a game where there was a successful trigger roll (the dice just hated the Axis), so I can't honestly say if it affects the game or not.  It seems like it would really suck to be Russia and then- "Whoops!!, bend over and take it from the Turks" on a lucky roll, but the economic trigger doesn't seem very effective either, though probably more realistic.  What we've decided to try is adding one to the die roll for economic triggers, and if an economic trigger is successful, it goes back to standard for a troop trigger.