Detroit Game #3- (1939 Scenario)

[Yoper]

Allies 1/42

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[Yoper]

Allies 1/42

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[Yoper]

Allies 1/42

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[Yoper]

[Rant Mode On]

We, the Axis powers, are very perturbed by the cessation of hostilities based upon the unrealisticly high minimum number of Victory Points needed to continue the game.

The ability of the Allies to take three fringe VPs and one back door VP to drop the Axis to a total of 27 VPs in no way is indicative of the overall game situation.

The initial minimum number of 28 VPs is too high.  A more reasonable level of 24 (or less) should be instituted.  This would allow for more freedom to pursue alternate paths to victory. 

As it stands now, it seems that there few paths to be followed simply because you are forced to have a certain number of VPs by a certain time.

We may only have a few quality games under our belts, but I think we are seeing a few of the limiting factors of some of the design choices.

[Rant Mode Off]

Listen guys, we are enjoy ourselves, don't get me wrong.  We wouldn't be putting in the time and effort if we weren't.

We may eventually get to a higher level of competency that makes such concerns moot.  I am not sure that is the problem here though. 

I still feel that it has more to do with the choices that you the designers have made based on your personal preferences.  That you would like to see the war play out in certain patterns. 

That is fine, if that is what you like.  I just feel that there needs to be more leeway built into the game.

Craig

 

[John D.]

Is it me, or does Germany look really tough...

John

[Yoper]

That's my point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mark]

Yoper - I am sorry this hapenned to you guys    .  It looks like it was shaping up to be a really good game too.

Certainly the victory conditions could be scaled wider to force a game to last longer.  But to start things at 28 and 42 has worked fairly well so far.  (At one point there was serious discussion that the low end should be raised to 30 - glad we did not do that!).  I think if the Axis don't have a VP level in the 30's at this stage of the game that they are going to lose it eventually - so a victory level of 28 limits prolonging the agony - but there are always exceptions, and given what happened on the Russian front you guys may have proved the exception to the rule.

I still believe the game allows a lot of flexibility - I have seen the Germans win by taking out Russia, taking the Middle East, taking Spain and Gibraltar or taking out the UK - or even hanging on until the end.  I have seen the Japanese win a number of different ways too.

I think, where the game is fairly unforgiving though is when your strategy gets you no additional victory points in one theater while losing more in one or two others.

In your game - things had really turned around in Russia ( Congratulations to the German player by the way - an amazing offensive - the guy deserves the MVP Iron Cross for that move!), but it did not make up for the lack of victory points in the Mediterranean and in the Pacific.

To be honest, I think the loss could have been easily avoided.  The Japs could have prevented the Allies from taking any of their islands by strategically moving the fleet back to the Carolinas and strategically movng a couple transport loads of infantry from the Philippines or Southern China out to Truk or the Marianas.

Likewise, Norway and Romania could have both been defended a bit better to prevent those sneaky Allied amphibs.  When the game is near to Victory or Defeat points - both sides need to be aware of what VPs are vulnerable.  The Allied players in your game certainly had their eyes fixed on 3 VPs to win the game.  This gets more and more critical as the game goes on when the game is close - the Allies are constantly trying to get 1,2,3 VPs every turn to either prevent the Axis from winning or to win the game themselves - so VPs are very important.

That all being said, I am very flexible and if a majority of people who have played the game chime in and suggest the VP levels need to be looked at again - I am certainly willing to adjust the victory conditions - keeping the Allied victory at 24 until Spring 1944 for example.

I'm sure the players who were the Axis in your last game will have their eyes on their VPs next time around when things get tight.  I am really hoping your current game is a good long one

[Mark]

I might suggest, before your next game, perhaps if all of the players agree to the 24 point Allied victory limit (until it starts dropping in 1944) - so that you guys will be able to play a game out regardless of what happens in order to experience what takes place later in the game.

[Yoper]

The only reason the Allies went for the fourth VP (Romania) was because it was the one they needed to win the game. 

It was not a move that made sense if the game were to continue on, but it was a gambit that was worth taking if it meant ending the game now.

After the attack that the Germans put on the Soviets, the Allies knew they were in a tight position.  If the game played out, it would have been interesting to see what the Axis could finally get to points wise.  The Allies were in a good position in the Pacific and the Med, but the Germans were really looking good in Russia.

Craig

[Mark]

The German Spring 1942 offensive was a beautiful thing. . . there were a few juicy opportunities in Russia from the pictures from last week and I was really looking forward to this weekends posts to see if your German player took advantage of anything.  What he ended up doing far exceeded what I thought was going to happen - he really did a good job with it.

After playing the game a number of times and getting the Black Sea Soviet transport landing in Romania a few times against me (but never in a game winning move I must admit) - after a while you pick up a few things like: always leave 2-3 infantry in Romania, always build 2-3 forts in Norway, defend Athens from a British invasion, etc. to try to inhibit the sneaky allied amphibs to get a couple VPs to either prevent an Axis victory or to seize one of their own. . .

Actually, I lost a game going the other direction once. . .It was a sure thing the Axis were going to lose and were getting pushed back everywhere - and just then the Germans paradropped into undefended Moscow in the winter of 43 and the Russian player had nothing next to Moscow and nothing could Mech attack it because it was Winter and the game was over becasue it put the Germans above their VP level. . . the Allies were ticked - because it was a "cheap" victory (so I feel your pain).

[Yoper]

The Greece thing was something that also came up in conversation.

We could have used the VP but it would have created an opening for the UK in the Med.

The Romanian thing by itself would be acceptable.  As a part of this situation, it was ridiculous.

The Western Allied player (Eric.  Have you noticed that it is always Eric who is getting things done?) was going to take Norway, Tripoli, and the Japanese island VP anyway.  The fact that he could take these along with Romania and end the game was tough.

He knew that they were going to lose unless he prematurely ended it by getting to the VP limit.

It just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.  You are winning and the fight gets stopped on a technicality. 

[Erc]

The German player made a brilliant move to encircle almost the entire Red Army in this game.  At first look, it seems to be a hopeless situation for the Soviets and I concurred.    We took a look at the current victory point status which revealed that if we could somehow take 4 points from the Axis, we could snatch victory from the apparent jaws of defeat.

Three of the four victory points were in the Western Allied grasp and fit within the current strategy.  Tripoli was the target of the British in North Africa.  An amphib group at Scapa flow was poised to strike at Norway.  The Allied task force with 8 infantry units had 4 Japanese victory points within reach, but Japan's last move narrowed the opportunites down to one, the Carolines.  These three victory point targets were natural Allied targets.  However the fourth was not.

Due to the game situation, I convinced the Soviet Allied player to make the amphib into Rumania to capture the fourth victory point to seal an Allied victory.  As Yoper pointed out, this is not an attack that makes sense in the long term.

I also have to give some credit to the Soviet Allied player who analyzed the situation on the map as well as the rules and devised a clever plan to break out of the encirclement.  The two groups would attack in conjunction with units that were outside of the encirclement and then withdraw all the remaining units after the first round outside of the pocket.  The Soviets took significant casualties in these break out attacks, but the bulk of the Red Army was saved.  However, the Germans were still poised to run all over the Soviet Union.

In summary, it was an bummer   ending to the game.  I guess one good thing that came from this game is that we all learned quite a bit on how to play the game and hopefully cleared up some rule issues.

[Mark]

You guys certainly have the rules and the strategies down. . .The German players spring 42 offensive was fantastic - and the Russian players breakout strategy was excellent as well.  The British and Americans have it all down - being able to launch a naval offensive against Japan in spring 42 is amazing. . . And the Japanese player too - bringing back the fleet and blocking with his detroyer and cruiser (supported by the adjacent carrier planes) was a good move to try and recover.

I think, even with the German Spring offensive, the Allies probably still had th advantage - you would be surprised at how quickly the Russians can recover from disaster.

I am really looking forward to playing you guys at Origins next Summer (if not sooner!) !  By then, you will be teaching us a few things  !  I hope you can all make it.

[Yoper]

Why don't you fly in for a long weekend and join us at the gaming table?  Maybe over the holidays?

I will pick you up at the airport!  Just let me know when.

Craig

[John D.]

So - I have finally had a chance to check the results of the last game.
    Everything that your group is experiencing echoes what we went through when play testing and playing.

After this game, it looks like your group has a very good feel of the macro-strategy of the game - which is argueably the most important aspect of the game. This can ONLY be learned through experience.

By the way - I would love to fly out for a long weekend - what about you, Mark!

John