ww2wargame.com
WWII: Struggle for Europe____WWII: Struggle for Asia => After Action Reports / Playtesting => Topic started by: John D. on February 04, 2010, 03:21:40 PM
-
OK - so after quite a few marathon games and some playtesting we (Brian and I - Axis players/Mike and Joe - Allied players) are doing a paced game.
-
OK - Good news - we are back to playtesting. We are going to try a few variations in the rules to see how they feel - we started over a new game last night and I will have photos up shortly (after I neaten the units up a bit). The game play is very smooth - at this point we are just tweaking details. In this game we will play with the following rules - leaders can only influence their own die rolls and there will be a double mech move during the summer in non-arid spaces. That should be interesting!
Tune in for updates!
-
OK - here is the end of turn 1 (Autumn 1939)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
more
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
more
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Fight Fins, Fight!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o
Also, I want to know about the choice of amphibing Bergen? What's up with that?
What devious gambit does that set up for you? Going to Scotland are we? ???
Or maybe York? :o
I know!!!!!!!! It's the "Mark" attack on Iceland!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
-
Not lookin' good for the Italians in East Africa ;D
-
Did Italy declare war in Autumn 1939? If they did, I think I would go all out as the French/British to occupy North Africa and any parts of Italy left undefended. . .Why not drop some French off in North Africa and invade Tripoli from Tunisia?
Looks like a decent start - looking forward to how it develops. . .
-
OK - Yes - the Italians did declare war on the first turn. The game will play significantly different without the options of leader re-rolls affecting enemy dice. We will get a chance to play this coming weekend...
-
Man, I think if you did that to me I would go all out to invade Italy and North Africa with the French. . .
Why did the British fleet withdraw to the Red Sea? The Italian fleet hiding in Venice scare them away?
-
Actually - I am playing the Allies. The Italian fleet is "in Port" so the only thing that could get at them was the air on the carrier. The axis gave the initiative away on the first turn so they had the last move. I am playing patiently for the moment. - Remember - it's only turn 1. I'll get more aggressive on the next turn. My plan is to conduct this game so you will feel the need to give the axis more resources ;)
-
So - you need to get Brian on the forum - we need to understand the thinking behind hid Axis approach!
And. . .it is looking more like I will be back in the States last week of June / 1st week of July - so now we need to get Yoper to come out to New England for a few days!
-
Yoper - you can crash wherever we play. Ok - here is what things look like in the Spring of 1940. Some highlights:
One Italian infantry defended against 3 French infantry in North Africa.
The French broke through deep into Germany only to find themselves well overextended and later crushed before they could retreat.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Oh yeah - did I mention the Brits are evacuating the continent...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
And finally...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Hitler is not available for comments, but his trusted second, DeathMachine, is here to comment for the Axis side.
Turn 1: I find out the hard way what the offensive-only re-rolls means. I lost 4 armor and a pzgr to a measly polish force in warsaw. Everyone needs to be very careful about mech moves now. Which is interesting since we have double mech move summers, which we have yet to try out at this time.
Italy declares war. I hope to use the extra production to thwart my enemies in the med. This means that Britain can conquer north africa quickly. But since we see that a viable strategy is to forget about north africa and go fortress italy, I leave the choice up to the allies to show me where I am to place my resources. It also should be easy to send a dummy force to north africa at some point to get upgraded rommel.
Turn 2: Disaster in Norway! Britain easily pushes my fleet back behind the denmark straits and zocs the sea zones around norway. My troops are out of supply with not much hope to come back in supply. Meanwhile Britain itself is almost devoid of troops, some going to norway and to the mainland. John realizes an important thing here. Who cares about defending britain when I can't get my fleet past his all powerful one. The 4 troops in norway make it impossible for me to take it over, especially while out of supply. This is the kind of aggressive tactic that will allow the allies to win. The british fleet shouldn't be hiding out at scapa flow. Bring those carriers in for air support and chase the germans back behind denmark.
France attacks into germany from alsace-lorraine. This really messes up my finances for the next turn. His troops die, but they are french so who cares. John is throwing every last frog against me since he knows they will all die very soon.
Turn 3: Repositioning my air towards denmark. Lesson learned, still won't be enough to protect my fleet enough to get out of the strait but will have to try next turn anyway. I have no choice.
Failed attack into the mountains on the french italian border. Just bad rolls. oh well. I take 2 french territories and put alsace lorraine out of supply. I am in a position to take two open territories next turn, but I am expecting a heavy counterattack by john, most likely with every french troop still in play, even the out of supply ones. I am expecting huge losses on my side to deal with next turn.
Note about initiative. I took initiative on this turn and the last turn. I haven't been able to bomb britain due to having initiative. My preference is just to give up initiative every time, even if I have pressing business. The ability to move your planes last outweighs being pinned I believe.
-
OK - here are the next two turns... The allies were able to mount a desperate counter attack that resulted in a few more axis casualties but had little effect on France's fate...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
We did manage to evacuate the Brits - thanks to the short-lived presence of French and Belgian troops...
Admiral Cunningham to the rescue (having a high initiative rating sure comes in handy)
Norway is still holding - but the Axis of a great deal of leverage with all of this airpower. They bombed London to a standstill...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Italy is on the move - the Italian Fleet went head to head against the French battleship - and lost...
Brits lose a battleship to bombers... Leverage is effective.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More - Balkans are invaded in Autumn- Winter is coming...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I think the allies need more air defense and AA in the UK...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Well - we couldn't end the game with out determining initiative for the start of the Winter 1940-41 turn. Axis won and drew a "2" - allowing the small German fleet to act before the large allied fleet - what will they do? Flee or boldly interpose themselves to stop the allies from reinforcing the Norwegian Redoubt...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Go Brian!
Looks like you are in a pretty good position to take out the rest of Norway and cleaning things up in the Balkans. . .Three divisions of paratroopers in Norway - that looks pretty initimidating for Norway and the UK. . ..
The Royal Navy has abandoned the Eastern Med which should allow for some interesting opportunities. . . .
Wow, John, how much British armor do you have in Egypt. . .I don't know if I have ever seen that much there before. . .
Next couple turns should be pretty interesting for sure. . .
-
Sure - I have been maxing armor for the Brits and Commonwealth and focusing on building destroyers and carriers ( I built 2 (one heavy, one light) because the German aces sank one). I am lacking air power for sure. I had to give up on the Med for a bit - can't do it all...
-
Hey I made a huge mistake in the build phase. I put those troops in the 1 box last turn so I actually need those german troops on the board and to spend the excess money. Mike will probably remember that this whole turns build consisted of moving the 1 box to the 0 box, so no troops should have been moved to the 0 box.
Also, We should get printouts of the new rules. Mike, I believe you had a nice version of the new rules that were easy to print out. Am I right?
-
Well- we will certainly fix the builds - that is easy - rules are on the site - under Draft rules...
-
Looking for some advice here Mark. What do you think I should do with my lonely cruiser and destroyer? Should I block his transport coming with 3 troops to defend norway or flee like a little b@tch?
-
I would pull it back to Germany and put it in port. . .put enough airpower in Norway to blast away any British efforts to have a fleet near it in order to keep it in supply.
I think it more likely John will attempt to pull his guys out of Norway rather than send good money after bad. . .if he leaves any ships near Norway, sink them with airpower and preserve your fleet. . .
Bomb the hell out of England. . .you also have a whole corps of paratroopers to invade the UK if you feel like it. . . if the opportunity presents itself. . .
Make hay in the Med since the Brit fleet is gone - Get Athens, Crete, and whatever else looks good - like Malta and Cyprus - the more the merrier and the more likely you will pull Turkey in on your side. . .
Stack up for the big Russia push in 41!
-
OK - here is the Winter 1940 turn. In a risky effort to draw air power away from the allied hold in Norway and sink the German fleet, the British Fleet took a big risk that paid little in dividends. Both sides got lucky and suffered no losses, with just capital ships steaming away for eventual repairs. The operation to pry the allies out of Norway without air power was successful. Most of the Balkans fell though Athens is still holding. The Brits really suffered heavily with subs and strat bombing inflicting nearly 20 PP of damage (almost 1/2 of the UK war economy). With more subs in production and no sign the Luftwaffe operations over the Uk are ready to back off, US lend lease is getting critical..
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More Winter 40
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
As you can see from the previous post - German production is at 95 - compared to the last turn of UK production of 36 (which included 10 PP of lend lease) and 20 PP of Commonwealth production. Shown below are the build charts for Italy and the minor axis - adding another 31 points of axis production.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
John - I think you are building two destroyers for the Commonwealth - they can only have one on the build chart - either Canadian or Australian.
Where did all the German tanks go - are they being railed and off board - or are there only like 4-5 German armor left in the game?
-
Yes Mark, there is a lot of armor being railed this turn so you don't see them.
John and I will play another quick turn this Sunday and then he will call in Joe next week as a specialist on russian defense.
John didn't show finland which will have 7 or 8 troops amassed at the border with a single artillery.
-
Yeah - I caught that - I just switched an Australian DD for a UK one and switched a UK AA gun for a Canadian one...
Axis have 9 armor being railed...
-
Does anyone know how much armor axis usually has at this point? Assuming axis invades on the 8th turn, I will have 15 armor
-
Yup - They average 15 armor on turn 7. You are heavier in air and subs overall. You will have two more armor on turn 8 (17 total). You are on target. 8)
-
I think 15 armor is stronger than average - I don't think I usually have that much by turn 8. . .
Germany starts with 7 - and the most they can crank out is 4 every two turns - giving them a max of 19 at the beginning of Turn 8. Even if you max build armor and have no losses, the most you can have is 19 (not counting STuGs). I think I usually have around 12 for Barbarossa. . .
Sounds like you may have John a little nervous. . . which is good. . . :)
-
Don't forget Italian and/or Romanian/Hungarian armor... 8)
-
SEE - He IS nervous! You can tell when John is shook up when he starts talking about Italian armor :D
-
I should be! You've seen what they could do first hand! :o
-
OK - We're back! We managed to get in 2 turns. We are playtesting the Summer double mech phase. It was great. The German punch into Russia destroyed an incredible amount of the Russian army but long overstretched it's lines. Essentially - it seemed to work perfectly - check it out! We ended on the Autumn 1941 turn.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
BTW - the stuff in Spain is what is being railed by the Axis. No invasion there...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Yeah - It looks like Rommel is pulling out... Maybe Graz will stabilize things..
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More - Look how deep the Germans penetrated on the first turn!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
and finally ;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Thanks for the update, guys!
How are things going in North Africa? Was the invasion of Crete successful? How is Brian doing on triggers for the Turks - I see he has Malta too. . .
How about the economic warfare against Britain - I see a lot of u-boats getting built, but it looks like the UK economy is holding up pretty well. . .
-
Hey Mark,
North Africa is not looking good for us. We started with a large force in africa and then John just kept running more and more tanks in africa. Basically his bark is louder and we have started fleeing the continent. We have left some soldiers behind to die horrible deaths. On the bright side, the armor we saved from africa is being used in russia.
The invasion of Crete has not happened yet. We played a little of the autumn turn since we didn't want to go. We should have good air support and 2 front line troops. We almost triggered turkey twice!
With just subs we did 20 points of econ dmg to the brits and 5 to the commonwealth. Germany has not been bombed at all this game. John has sunk most of his money into a ridiculously large navy so soon he will probably root out and destroy my u-boats
-
Hey John, can we see the russian build chart too?
Also I don't see italian east africa. I am really concerned about what is going on there. ;)
-
At ease soldier... No more loss of sleep needed. Italian East Africa is in capable hands. I noticed Joe over built so he will need to deduct about 25 points of builts...
-
Joe overbuilding for the Russians again. . . now at least we know why Russia is so tough when Joe plays them. . .
-
Joe overbuilding for the Russians again. . . now at least we know why Russia is so tough when Joe plays them. . .
He's gotta do something with that "sea of gray" coming his way.
-
Believe me, Joe wishes he could build that much - maybe next turn - as I have maxed lend lease to Russia (16 PP!) :o
That's a fortune!
-
OK - so I'm looking forward to see what king of punishment Russia takes - I love a nail biter of a game!
-
The Russian Morale Officer says "Shoot any man who tries to retreat." ;D
-
Looks like Brian has just about got Murmansk cut off from Allied Lend Lease - so no Northern Lend Lease to Russia in Winter and Spring. . .
-
OK - Barbarossa is in full swing - Moscow has fallen! Winter is here - can the Germans continue to out manuever the Russians! North Africa is collapsing but the Turks became Nazi supporters and Syria and Iraq have joined the Axis cause. U-boats did minor damage but only lost one themselves. Check it out!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
More
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:o
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Wow - great update! Things are looking interesting in Russia - so the Germans took Moscow and then pulled back? Winter is the next turn?
What is Cunningham up to off of Sicily?
Nice to see the Turks go Pro-Axis - I'm sure that makes Brian happy - he is really puimping a lot of resources into Russia it looks like. . . by the way - let's see the Russian build sheet!
-
Yes - Winter is the next turn. Cunningham is trying to trap Rommel and his army in Africa and maybe hit the Italian fleet at the same time. Russia is going to be exciting 8)
-
I still don't know how you built so much British armor so fast - that was impressive. . . u-boats are not impacting your economy too much - or what did you cut back on to build up the British army?
Looks like Brian is going for the long game win by establiching a Fortress Europa and hanging onto VPs for enough turns to win it in the long run. . .I guess unless he blasts Russia away in 1942.
-
Russian builds. I guess Katushas are still undergoing field testing/trials...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
How did I do it? - Every other turn I built 3 Armor (I maxed them for at least 6 turns) and I started with two. Sub warfare: axis had subs doing movement interdiction with two subs (I chanced it couple of times - but the subs missed). He was averaging about 15-20 points a turn.
I really focused on ASW - last turn I got lucky and returned all but 1 sub... I'll say one thing - they are a very good distractor - I have had to play conservatively and divert alot of production to deal with them..
-
Wow - great update! Things are looking interesting in Russia - so the Germans took Moscow and then pulled back? Winter is the next turn?
Winter is the next turn.
I took moscow with very few units left and they were all mech. I couldn't reinforce it too well. I was scared if I left them there then joe would just place his builds right next to moscow and punish me. It saddened me deeply to pull out. I was also worried about the russian winter counteroffensive.
-
Looks like Brian is going for the long game win by establiching a Fortress Europa and hanging onto VPs for enough turns to win it in the long run. . .I guess unless he blasts Russia away in 1942.
That I am. I did a quick calculation and found that in my current position, being uprooted from the med, i would pretty much have to wipe out russia in order to win. I don't think that is really possible, but I think that i can hurt russia bad enough that it will be very difficult to take victory cities back fast enough to keep up with the accelerating, sliding victory chart. My official motto now is "An 88 a day keeps the allies at bay." Too bad my build limit doesn't increase in spring 42.
-
Not an issue with Jadpanzers...
-
A very exciting Winter 41-42 turn! Much to our chagrin, Joe and I had to play without John as he is very sick. Joe and I played the whole turn ourselves while John slept inside for most of the day. John stumbled into the bunker twice during the day to observe the situation and bark orders at Joe for the med.
Highlights:
1. Disaster in Tripoli! Auchinlek mechs in with 8 armor and 1 infantry. Rommel is defending Tripoli with 1 artillery, 1 grenadier and 4 italians along with the support of 2 long range fighters and 1 bomber. His kills only 4 troops on the first turn while I destroy 5 armor! By the end of it he had lost 7 armor and 1 infantry to my 4 italians and grenadier, artillery. Thats 60 points of english loss vs my 24 pts!
2. Italian fleet is reduced to destroyers. The whole med is out of supply for me as my cruisers have been destroyed. Joe threw his whole fleet at me with air support. He took heavy air casualties and one cruiser was damaged. I lost both remaining cruisers.
3. Russian winter counteroffensive. We employed the extra non-combat move rule for the russians. A counteroffensive in Vyazma spelled doom for Guderian as troops and support stormed my mech reserves. I lost 2 german armor, 2 italian armor, 1 stug, 1 grenadier and one 88 with 4 stuka air support. Light losses for the russians while german whole front line wiped out. In the ww2 mythos of this game, this is the failure that leads to the end of his career.
4. Heavy economic damage to the allies. A full 16 points to the russians and another 16 points to the Brits/commonwealth. Paris and surrounding areas took bomber damage of 6 points. The pressure is beginning to be applied.
5. Builds. Even though John works for the allies, his heart remains in the axis. His heart will sing when he sees the variety of new weapons available and in progress.
-
Oh yeah. Rommel has officially become the mechanism through which all corporeal spirits cease to be, the DeathMachine.
-
Well - here is the next batch. Rommel escaped - off to the eastern front for him...
Allies are positioned to land in North Africa
Leningrad looks like it will soon be isolated
I still don't see Katyushas on the build chart (and that makes me sad)
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
The rebellion in Syria is a bit out of hand - guess they can't do much in the desert...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
8)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:D
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:o
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I like the paradrop in the Kuban to cut off the Russians in the Crimea!
Looks like Leningrad may be ripe to fall to the Axis - wow
It is a good thing that Joe does not read these forum posts or he might heed your advice on the Katyushas. . . ;)
-
I like the paradrop in the Kuban to cut off the Russians in the Crimea!
Looks like Leningrad may be ripe to fall to the Axis - wow
It is a good thing that Joe does not read these forum posts or he might heed your advice on the Katyushas. . . ;)
Sometimes you need to be slapped around to learn properly as to your mistakes.
Right Mark? I've got one word for you: Dan!
-
I also noticed no Soviet leader in Leningrad - that could be a problem managing reinforcements... :-[
Game point: Big stacks of front line units are not that effective without leaders to manage them.
-
Sometimes you need to be slapped around to learn properly as to your mistakes.
Right Mark? I've got one word for you: Dan!
You will never let Mark and I forget those games, will you? :'(
-
Is Yoper gloating again? :o
-
I think we are ready for a rematch whenever Yoper's Detroit crew gets enough guts to try another run at us - but we think they are too frightened to commit to a rematch with the advanced game. . .
-
I don't win that often, so I have to enjoy it when I can. ;)
I would love to come out, but I will never be able to get Dan to come along and Eric just got back into a job after being out of work for six months.
I finally told my wife about going to WBC for ten days and I keep hearing about it. ::)
I would love to make it out like October some time for a weekend of fun and carnage. Mark, when are you come back to the States for good?
-
Do Mark and I have to come out there again? ;)
-
God , i want to play on this map :P
-
Soon, my friend 8)
-
Do Mark and I have to come out there again? ;)
Only if you want another whoopin'!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I finally told my wife about going to WBC for ten days and I keep hearing about it. ::)
Is she happy for you?
-
I finally told my wife about going to WBC for ten days and I keep hearing about it. ::)
Is she happy for you?
Happy???????!!!!???????!!!!
She talks about how spoiled I am!
She resents my decision to do such a thing. But she knows that I am going to do it anyway.
In the end, she knows that I won't make a decision that is over the top- that would totally ruin our situation, our life. But she does feel that this is a bit much.
I will probably have to either give up the event now that I have moved it to a Precon, or still run the event but give up a later part of the convention to continue to do it so. Seven days in years' past was more than she wanted, but that was still within the realm of credibility.
I was also going to Origins in those years. Now I am giving up Origins to make the full ten days of WBC.
Choices have to be made.
-
Do you think it would ever be a good idea for us to bring this game to WBC and play it as some sort of demo or something?
-
Wondering the same thing myself!
-
You guys ever been out to California or do you ever plan to?
-
Do you think it would ever be a good idea for us to bring this game to WBC and play it as some sort of demo or something?
You could come and play in the open gaming area during the regular convention.
But if you want to try to do it as a demo, it will end up costing a pretty penny. I have sent you the info before, but I think that it costs like $500 to set up at a table in one of the main gaming area.
http://www.boardgamers.org/wbc/exhibitors.htm
I was saying that you could come down during the Precon weekend and hang with me and the A&A players. That way you are showing the game to a group of players that are more likely to buy the game.
-
OK - Here is the next batch - we actually played 2 turns Spring and
Summer 1942. Heavy units are in play!
Some highlights - The Italians smashed the rest of Auch's armored fist - that 9 armor lost in North Africa!
Operation Torch was repulsed. Italian subs and ME 110's drove off the amphibious landings. This temporary political victory brought the Vichy in with the Axis...until the next turn.
Leningrad fell! It will not be taken back easily! If ever!
Looks like the US will have to start shipping trucks over to Russia! Assuming Archangel doesn't fall!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
The Soviets better fall back or they are going to get flanked. :o :o :o :o :o :o
The Crimea and Leningrad!
The door is open to Rostov and Vologda.
What does the USSR have on their production track?
It better be massive!
-
Ummmmmmm......... no comment. Wonder why?
-
The Russians actually have a lot of options. I don't think that falling back is the best move. Initiative will play a large part this coming turn.... :o
-
Russia's biggest issue is that Archangel or Moscow may be in trouble. If Archangel get knocked out - the biggest lend lease route will be cut off for US trucks - and that really impedes mechanized attacks for the Soviets. They may have to play very conservatively...
-
God , i want to play on this map :P
Soon, my friend 8)
How soon?
-
Yeah - Moscow looks a little scary for the Russians for the next couple turns - especially now that Leningrad has fallen to the Fascist hordes. . .
I don't know who I am rooting for! Do I want Brian and Mike to pull it off and defeat John? Or - do I want the Allies to triumph over the Axis?
-
I think I talked Joe into building Katyushas! - We'll see them in action in 43! I hope! :o
Now it looks as if I will have to begin sending trucks over to Joe! It may take almost a year to get him mechanized!
-
Are you guys testing out an alternative rule for Soviet mechanization?
-
Yes - Joe and I really like the rule. The Soviets will usually opt not to use lend lease for trucks early on - as they will need units ASAP. When things get a bit stabilized- they can ask the US for more lend lease to get the trucks - say by 1943 - which kind of works out historically. It is a really fun rule - to truck or not to truck... 8)
-
How many lend lease points to the Allies have to ship in order to motorize the Russians?
-
20 is what we are playing with.
-
Guys,
I've been a bit busy hence no posts, but I have been REALLY enjoying playing as Brian's evil Axis 2ic (basically his Scott Evil). Here are my highlights so far from this very interesting playtest.
Overall
- the pace has been great - two experienced players on each side makes for quick turns.
- the teams are well-balanced
- the game is serving a valuable role as a playtest; some rules (Sov trucks, double mech in non-arid summer) are working really well. Others (my stupid candidate rule limiting rerolls) were canned.
Strategic level
- the game is a test of the Fortress Italy model, with a twist (an annoying Axis outpost line in French North Africa). I have established the chain of island defences (Sardinia, Malta, Crete) and will be interested to see if it helps. My suspicion is that the Allies will sensibly avoid Italy and go for the main prize - France and Germany.
- this sets us up for a great test of the Operation Roundup scenario, the 1943 Allied invasion of France.
- in Russia, the forces are very thin and the double summer mech moves make for interesting effects. In Summer 41, the rules perfectly modeled the chaos of a long-range Blitzkrieg. Summer 42 saw both armies too broken to do much. I think Summer 43 is going to be CRAZY.
- in economic warfare, the U-Boats have been put in their place by strong ASW. That's realistic. It wasn't cheap for John to buy all those destroyers, but they are paying for themselves. We've maxed U-Boats since the start of the war, but the split between anti-transport and anti-economic tends to lead to failure in both.
- John has been a very smart British player - he's tried to help his allies (France, Norway) yet has managed to defeat the U-Boats and close down North Africa with an early show of force. John smartly recognizes that the UK is not really threatened by an amphib landing, and from that flowed many good resource decisions.
Tactical level
These lessons are classified for the moment.
Cheers
Mike
-
- in economic warfare, the U-Boats have been put in their place by strong ASW. That's realistic. It wasn't cheap for John to buy all those destroyers, but they are paying for themselves. We've maxed U-Boats since the start of the war, but the split between anti-transport and anti-economic tends to lead to failure in both.
You must concentrate on only one method. While it can be tempting to try to hit transports, the continuous degradation of the UK convoys is where the most benefit can be had.
But I do understand the want to hit a "juicy" target now and then. ;)
- John has been a very smart British player - he's tried to help his allies (France, Norway) yet has managed to defeat the U-Boats and close down North Africa with an early show of force. John smartly recognizes that the UK is not really threatened by an amphib landing, and from that flowed many good resource decisions.
I consider John the "crafty" one in the Mark/John combo. Mark is more like me- a lot of talk and some capabilities. We are complimentary players to the powerhouses like John and my buddy Eric.
-
I think I have been insulted. . . John - a better player than me, bah >:(
-
John is indeed the best player (trying to jinx him here), hence it was extra sweet repulsing his first Operation Torch attempt!! (I have to cling to these small crumbs of comfort).
On transports, I think it is definitely worth using U-Boats in an anti-invasion role. On other occasions, it is probably not worth it. Then again, he has been defending the convoy spaces so heavily that it is not much safer and the payoff is so much lower.
John's also been smartly moving transports on the non-com movement. I am usually so off-balance that I can't afford the delay. As tanks can't mech after being shipped anyway, it is definitely the best way to move them.
Also noteworthy - John has hardly shipped a single fighter. He's basically been fighting in the Med with very limited air. That may change now he can put Spits on carriers and is building an escort carrier.
Cheers
Mike
-
I guess I need to play against John when I am back in June to prove to you guys who is the better player. . . ::) . . . Just because he has won 4 out of the last 5 games means nothing - I have just been toying with him.
-
I think I have been insulted. . . John - a better player than me, bah >:(
There you go thinking again!!!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ;)
-
When are the next couple of turns scheduled? I am REALLY interested in how things are going to play out in Russia for the next turn or two. . .
I'm thinking the Germans may need to start investing a bit more in France. . .let the Italians worry about the Med. . . A Spring 1943 of the French coast looks likely.
By the way - what is the next turn? Summer 1942? You guys got to put some dates on these pics.
-
Autumn 1942 is next! 8)
We play tomorrow! 8)
-
What is the Victory Point level like - my calculation has the Axis around 30 VPs - is that right?
-
I think I am at 32 vps.
-
Ok - We played 2 turns. It is getting close. We are on the Spring 1943 turn. The Axis have been pushed out of North Africa and perisist in the U Boat war. The Allies threaten the continent but the Axis have invested a sizable force to deal with this. The Finns are certainly holding up to their end of the war...Check it out!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:o
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:o
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
8)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Wow. Lots going on in those turns.
- Great to see the U-Boat pens set up before Spring 43. That worked well.
- Northern France looks decent - we just need some artillery over there. Southern France looks more open, with risk to Italy too. What did Napoleon say about Italy?
- Glad to see the shape of northern Russia; the Mannerheim situation can be ironed out with a contraction of our frontline there.
Lots of planning for the critical Spring turn, which sets the scene for the double mech to follow.
- Can we deter or defeat a Spring 43 invasion, thus preventing that double mech through France?
- Can we control the initiative and shape of operations in Russia in Spring-Summer 1943?
Cheers
Mike
-
OK - We played Spring and Summer 1943. Very active. Western Allied landings in Italy and Norway occured but the Russian army is very anemic. Check this out...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:o
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
8)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
8)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
8)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
German player: I have seen a number of times that you have purchased ME-110's. What is special enough about this air unit that you have bought them?
Historically, they weren't a good fighter. Have you been using them in an ahistorical way that is useful? Ground attack or in a naval capacity?
-
Correct - they are a very flexible unit because of the extended range. They are moderate in most combat capacities... They are pretty good against naval units.
-
Wow - the Russians look like they are in pretty bad shape. . . have they placed their builds?
Italian morale is at -1 now, correct?
Is next turn Autumn 1943?
-
Yes, yes and yes :'(
-
Brian,
I'm impressed, mate. Your strength in France forced the Allies to pursue a peripheral strategy (Italy and Norway, aka the sideshows) in 1943 and fended off the much-feared main offensive into the Franco-German heartland. That is a strategic coup.
And playing conservatively in Russia looks to be paying dividends. Many short-range "smashing" battles on favourable terms. That's the trick.
Tough times ahead, but the war goes relatively well. Build table looks spot-on. Fighters, fighters, fighters.
We'll correspond more fully by email, when I send the next OKW appreciation.
Cheers
Mike
PS. In addition to photos, were there any highlights of the sessions? Any dramatic wins or losses?
-
Thank you Michael, you have served me well as my chief of staff. The proper preparation has indeed forced the allies to pursue more circuitous routes.
Northern Russia is indeed in a very bad way right now and I am not too far behind. There was a breakthrough in southern russia, I have thrown a little money at the problem to try to correct it.
Tough times are indeed ahead. You will no doubt learn more about my toils as you read from my diary which you will unearth years later next to a bottle of empty cyanide capsules.
I'd say you missed a pretty exciting invasion of sicily as well as the following turns over the river invasion further up the boot. I think I had 2 Jagdpanzers and a couple of AT and some forts. My Jagdpanzers really messed his shit up. I almost stopped the invasion because of them.
You also missed a pretty aggressive russia, I think I was attacked in 4 spots in russia when John got the initiative. I defended Vyazma and inflicted serious losses with my 2 SS heavies rolling on 9's, reg heavies on 8, etc.
We are playing tonight. If german west gets the initiative and gets an all move, then I think we are going to see some leaders murdered.
-
Tough times are indeed ahead. You will no doubt learn more about my toils as you read from my diary which you will unearth years later next to a bottle of empty cyanide capsules.
I would not go to the medicine cabinet just yet - from the way Russia looks, I think you have a good chance of a victory. . .
-
Indeed - I am amused that you refer to it as "medicine"... ;D
-
Brian,
I am thrilled to hear that the Western Allies are hopelessly speared on the sharp edges of Italy's mountains. Your panzer divisions sound like they are manned by true National Socialists. That can be the only explanation for their success in wearing down the enemy.
Seems that the Soviets are likewise quaking in their boots (those that have boots). The year 1944 will be a year of sorrow for our Eastern foe. I hope they like eating lichen, because that is all they will have to sustain themselves when we drive them underground in the Urals.
Time to make France and other soft spots even harder to penetrate before Spring 44. Then the Western Allies will be coming in great force and there will be tears for all concerned.
Look forward to seeing the pics. I am on holiday (i.e., vacation) from 29 May to 12 June, but will stay in email contact.
Cheers
Mike
C-of-S, OKW
-
OK Goebbels, I'll have the next run of photos shortly 8)
-
"there will be tears for all concerned."
Tears of joy for us, naturally.
I even welcome increased production of Allied heavy bombers. The German-speaking peoples must be tested by fire and steel. We will emerge stronger.
Cheers
Mike
-
OK - 2 more turns - we are about to begin Spring 1944. Looks like the Allied landings in France are going to be late (if they happen at all). Axis are beginning to go a bit more defensive - except maybe around Moscow. Italy fell and Patton is surrounded. War is so much fun...
I'm would like to hear Mike's spin on this. ;)
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
8)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I can't believe the Russians managed to hang onto Moscow - you are going to have to explain what happened in Central Russia in 1943.
-
Well - I don't remember exactly - but the Germans tried to attack several spots to pin the Russians. Moscow had to resort to using 4 of their AA guns on the front line....
-
You've encircled him in the north but it looks like it took a lot of resources to do so.
Axis need to put a bit of pressure on in the southern half of the Eastern Front, but I understand that there are only so many units to cover all your fronts.
Allies are spreading themselves across the Med. That might backfire if the different thrusts get chopped up from attacking piecemeal.
-
yes - it will be interesting to see if the several allied pinpricks in Northern Italy, Southern Italy and Greece end up being as effective as a single large sedgehammer blow into France. It looks like the allies have committed themselves to a Med strategy - looking forward to seeing how if it pays off or ends in dismal Churchillian failure.
What is the VP level at?
-
At this point the game has been played through the next 2 turns since john's last post and he will put up photos soon. I have 23 vps. At the end of this turn we are about to play. I win if I have 22vps.
Each turn is more exciting than the last one I would say. We just finished a 1944 Summer. Jets are near Berlin, never seen one on the board before. On the eastern front, I manage to still threaten Moscow with no threat to Leningrad or Helsinki. I haven't reinforced the Eastern front in about a year and they still have a couple turns of roadblock in them. It also manages to tie up his good leaders defending his own vps and not taking mine. If I take Moscow this turn, then I am sure that Axis will win the game by vps at the end of that turn. You know, if the war did turn out like this and Moscow was actually captured don't you think the Russians would have surrendered? If Moscow was taken and Russia fell to axis in game then maybe the axis could actually win the game, like invade Britain and America with the massive production power of Eurasia.
The attack on Norway was fruitful, but I don't know how effective. It was really hard for me to get troops over to Petsamo. It took 2 turns. Then when I get the troops up there and all dug in for another 2 turns and then he wisks away his troops on ferries. I have to then go walk to a rail line, the rail lines are very thin in scandinavia. My troops were doing nothing for a year while he takes a vp in norway. I have mixed feelings about it's effectiveness in the long term.
Normandy has happened, but it is in belgium in this mythos. I sank a transport with a sub. I have troops ready to pounce on them. Equivalent air power I'd say because of the jets.
The allied prescence is weak in Italy. The shit has been smashed out of all but about 8 units in cassino and 1 unit in Milan. I am ready this turn to just kick them off the boot entirely. Rome is strong and the mountain linker above it is impregnable. I am feeling a strain in my army's mobility though. The extra forces that are now in Italy need to be diverted quickly to the north.
My favorite has to be Bucharest. I got Antonescu, 5 romanians, 1 rom armor and 4 rom artillery. It is tidy. Just enough frontline with support. I'll also be able to send two troop reserve from bulgaria. Some Russian douchebags are outside the gates and it will be tough to repel them. I have to hope I destroy some of that armor coming in on the fist round.
-
Yeah - I took a beating in Italy! - That can happen when the Germans get the Inititive and the ALL move (0 Chit). They managed to attack Patton, putting him on the defensive (something he is not used to). This will be a very tough and close game - one of the best I have played EVER! 8)
Pics will come tomorrow..
-
Pics will come tomorrow..
Can't wait.
-
Alright - this is THE closest and toughest game ever! :o
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Only 4 more turns of the game!!!! - The time is running out for the Allies to collect enough victory cities to win!!! :o
This Wedns we will finish things off...
Stay tuned. ;D
-
you missed an extremely important pic, that is british army group 7 and 8!
-
Let's go Axis! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
-
Opps - yeah - took the pics very late last night and thought I got them in - here they are in all of their glory!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
So - Wednesday is the big day when we will find out who wins and who loses? You guys are playing this one down to the wire. . .
-
I have a feeling this one is going to the end.... 8)
-
OK - It didn't quite go to the end but is was really close - only 2 turns away! We ended
Winter 1944.
Well - the axis won - what a great game. It was very close until Brian, with exceptional use of transport planes and jets (and pretty much everything) was able to stem the allied tide (which was right next to Berlin) just enough to clinch victory. He had 20 VP (only needing 18)- Patton was in France on the Winter turns but the Germans heavily reinforced Paris so he was going to mech south to scoop Marseilles but the Axis held off Joes Russian mech assault, took back Milan and then held off Patton's unexpectedly needed Mech winter assault of Paris.
It was an amazing game. Jets - V rockets and US heavies all saw action!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:)
Last pic show allied casualties on the last turn!!!!
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
WOW!
The German Eastern Front really collapsed in the South and Central areas. Did the fall the Italy really affect the continuing pressure in the south? I remember seeing a combined Romanian/Italy force at one time in the Crimea.
I guess I didn't catch the redeployment of Patton from Italy to France. I would take it that the spread out approach to attacking in the Med by the WA wasn't the way to go?
Was there a certain early game timeframe that either/both sides can point to that helped delay the Allies such that the Axis were able to hold to this point?
I await your comments.
Good job guys! ;D
-
Looks like it was a great game guys! Nice job defeating John - always good to see. .. ;D
So - the championship crown now passes to Brian? We will have to see if someone can take the title from him at the end of the month. . .
-
Well - the game was alot closer than it looks. Patton was set to attack Paris on this turn but didn't on the regular phase because both Joe and I figured we could hold off. We were getting VPs from other areas but the suprise came when Brian held off Joe in Warsaw and took back another VP (Milan) unexpectedly. Then I was forced to attack a heavily reinforced Paris on the Mech phase (without artillery support). I was setting up to knock out Berlin on the next turn but too late...
-
The German Eastern Front really collapsed in the South and Central areas. Did the fall the Italy really affect the continuing pressure in the south? I remember seeing a combined Romanian/Italy force at one time in the Crimea.
I guess I didn't catch the redeployment of Patton from Italy to France. I would take it that the spread out approach to attacking in the Med by the WA wasn't the way to go?
Was there a certain early game timeframe that either/both sides can point to that helped delay the Allies such that the Axis were able to hold to this point?
I'm interested in the answers to these questions too. . .
-
OK - there were a couple of things I can think of.
The Germans kept Murmansk and Archangel out of supply for the whole game - so no lend lease to Russia.
There was a great amount of pressure in the Northern forests with the help of the Finns - eventually leading to the fall of Leningrad. In this game Leningrad was traded for Stalingrad and Leningrad is much harder to take back when it falls.
Most of the builds were being placed in Moscow - which was very close to being surrounded every turn and the Germans would just smash the armor units as they appeared or worse (for the Russians), they would smash all of their units trying to break out.
Patton got smashed in Northern Italy and lost an amazing amount of product because there was no place to retreat when his defensive line broke.
We made a few mistakes but the game could have been even closer if Patton attacked Paris on the regular phase. After that - he would have been relocated next to Berlin for the Spring 1945 attack.
Brian had an incredible defensive rail (4 Jagpanzers) that was going to be placed in Berlin - not to mention all his builds - it would have been a great battle (fun).
Also - Brian is now very fluent in the game and will not repeat some of his early mistakes - towards the end - he really did not make any mistakes.
Subs were used very well in this game - they tied up an incredible amount of my resources - it really worked out great!
Looking forward to the next one!
-
So - if you had to pinpoint a "turning point" was it when Leningrad fell or when Patton's army in Northern Italy got wiped out?
-
It seemed to me that the early turning point was actually the delay in getting forces into the Med/attacking Italy.
That goes back to the whole discussion of the use of the subs by the Axis.
-
Well - I did attack Italy on time ( I was actually ahead of schedule but the Brit/Commonwealth armor got wiped out early in the game in NA), putting me back on a normal schedule. Patton getting wiped out delayed things but I still recovered and would have knocked out Paris (to keep the game going). So the Allies can absorb some disasters and still win the game - that is my point. 8)
-
Were there any big Axis disasters?
-
Also, didn't the UK make an early return to Norway that eventually was repulsed?
-
The biggest disaster for the Axis was the initial taking of Norway. They lost quite a bit as the Brits were trying to support the Norway's defense. I think they lost like 10 troops taking Norway (maybe more). The Brits never tried for an early retake of Norway. The retake was a combined UK/US effort that was successful later in the game. Another disaster was that the German Navy (including the newly built Battleship) was destroyed very early in the game. That Navy can become a major problem for the Allies later in the game...
-
I think my success on the eastern front is responsible for my victory this game. I had Joe on the defensive until I controlled most of the good terrain around moscow. I kept moscow surrounded and let Joe/John try to push me out of the woods and forest. Vyazma in particular is a place where 100's of pp worth of metal and flesh is just lying strewn about in those woods. As long as I had Moscow under siege the bulk of russia's forces were tied up. Around the beginning of 44 I stopped reinforcing the eastern front and slowly let Russia lose lots of forces assaulting me in the good terrain.
In Italy, Tyrol proved to be an incredible defensive spot for me. I could build directly there and it is in the mountains. I placed a build there mid 44 and cut pattons forces out of supply all the while ignoring the fact that rome was out of supply and in peril. I knew that rome couldn't be taken based on the forces left on the board for the allies. If they wanted rome, they could have gotten it with a concerted effort. But taking it would severely hurt efforts in the north, which I was more worried about.
I had a rough time taking norway but i don't think it was a game breaker. I only lost troops. John's statistical blunder in north africa when he lost 8 tanks to a handful of infantry and support was particularly painful to watch.
I think the attack on Norway in the endgame wasn't worth it for the allies. My north french and german coast was a little overdefended at that time though so I don't know what I would have done. Maybe a concentation of forces for 1 assault at milano or marseilles could have turned the tides enough for victory.
I also think that it is impossible for the allies to win through vps after Summer 44. I also believe the allies will lose if it gets to winter 44 at all. The allies must take Berlin before this point to have a reasonable chance at winning.