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WWII: Struggle for Europe____WWII: Struggle for Asia => First Edition Game => Rules questions from first edition => Topic started by: Yoper on October 10, 2006, 02:34:58 AM
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I think that there needs to be a clarification of the information for the collapse of Vichy France.
When rolling for the collapse of Vichy France you need to count up the territories that the WA occupy. Are each of the territories in NA counted individually for this situation?
The NA territories are considered to be one entity when they are attacked by the WA but it seems that it is different when dealing with this situation.
Craig
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Each of the territories are counted for the collapse of Vichy France. If the Allies invade NA - all four territitories go German - but for rolling for Vichy collapse purposes - each is counted individually. I will add an example to make this more clear. Per the rules:
Vichy France is fragile in the same manner as Italy and France. At the end of every Allied turn in which one or more of the following territories are Allied occupied, the German player rolls one die for Vichy French capitulation. The territories that trigger a Vichy die roll are: Madagascar, Syria, Corsica, Tunisia, Oran, Algiers, and Morocco. If the die roll is equal or less than the number of Allied occupied Vichy territories, Vichy France surrenders. (e.g. If the Allies control 2 Vichy French territories, on a "2" or less, Vichy France surrenders). Upon Vichy surrender, all Vichy infantry units are removed from play.
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Vichy units being ones that are still French - if some units already went Axis (German) they remain German. for example, if the Allies invade Morocco - all the NA units go German. If at the end of the Allied turn they roll a one and Vichy surrenders, the Vichy units in Southern France, Corsica, Syria and Madagascar go away - but not the (now German) units in NA.
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That is the way we played it but it wasn't 100% clear.
How do you deal with the situation in Algeria? It is made up of two separate territories. Does each count towards the roll or do you have to occupy both to make it count as one for the roll?
Craig
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Yeah - both are each rolled individually - the text above calls out Oran and Algiers seperately - this gets back to your suggestion of the territory names being clear and big to stand out from multiple city names in a territory.
Mark
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Especially when you have a rule that has the whole of Vichy NA being lumped together as one, but then have a rule in the same section that splits them up.
I like both rules, I just think that they could be clearer in their intent.
Craig
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A friend asks a question:
What rule are we using that allows the Allies to invade Vichy France? I know that we have always done it and it was done historically, but perhaps we have erred since there is a rule that clearly states that only the Axis and the Soviets can declare war on neutral countries. The section on France seems to indicate that the Allies can invade neutral Vichy France but is there a real ruling that contravenes the specific rule prohibiting the Allies from attacking neutral countries? Is Vichy France the only neutral country the Allies can invade or are Spain, Portugal, and Greece, for example, open to Allied invasion, too?
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A friend asks a question:
What rule are we using that allows the Allies to invade Vichy France? I know that we have always done it and it was done historically, but perhaps we have erred since there is a rule that clearly states that only the Axis and the Soviets can declare war on neutral countries. The section on France seems to indicate that the Allies can invade neutral Vichy France but is there a real ruling that contravenes the specific rule prohibiting the Allies from attacking neutral countries? Is Vichy France the only neutral country the Allies can invade or are Spain, Portugal, and Greece, for example, open to Allied invasion, too?
Vichy France is treated differently than other neutrals since it is (as the section below states) a pro-German neutral.
Vichy France
• Vichy France is a “pro-German Neutral” in the game. Germany gets production points for all Vichy Territories (mark them with German control markers). Vichy French units are treated as Axis units that can not move unless attacked by the Allies.
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Yoper is a rules hawk - thanks! :)
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Thanks.