ww2wargame.com
WWII: Struggle for Europe____WWII: Struggle for Asia => RULES (UPDATED APRIL 2018) => Topic started by: Mark on June 23, 2009, 11:53:25 PM
-
Please find attached a very rough draft of the rules - they still need a lot of refinement and editing - but i wanted to post to allow others to look through them, provide edits, questions, suggestion and clarifications.
Some may not make sense without the player aid charts - so please let me know where there are gaps.
thanks,
Mark
-
I am currently reading through the rule set and I see some areas that aren't that clear.
Hopefully, it will become clear to me as I get farther along.
Plus, there are the normal Mark redundancies from time to time. Less than in the basic rule set, but still there. ;)
-
Rules updated as of February 7th 2010 - thanks for everyone's feedback! Still very much in draft form and still need work to make them easier to understand - but getting there.
-
Whoops - thanks for catching - that is why it is still a draft ;)
-
OK - Updated Advanced Rules attached!
Thanks to John, Yoper, Joe, Mike and Sean for inputs and edits!
-
Seems much clearer in many of the areas that I had questioned.
Also, the continuing AARs help in clarifying how things are actually implemented. I will continue to watch the action with great interest.
And I will continue to ask questions on things that still confuse me.
1) In the section concerning Initiative, I see where it is discussed that a Leader doesn't have to move when a chit is pulled that he could be activated on. It says that the Leader can move later.
What I would like clarified is whether the Leader can just decide to move at any point later, regardless of what chit is draw, or does he still have to have the later chit draw satisfy his initiative number?
My issue here is the idea of it being a risky move not to activate the leader now, since he may be stymied for a while if another chit that works for him doesn't come up right away. Thus leading to him being attacked before he gets to choose where to go.
Which leads to another area which troubled me until I reread the latest version of the rules- counterattacks. I didn't truly get why they were placed into the order of battles the way they were. Now I get the reasoning behind it and the ability to choose not to be pinned by a flanking attack. You give up your defensive values, but you gain the ability to use the forces the way you want to.
A very innovative idea. It forces both sides to think in different ways.
-
OK - leaders and initiative, simply put: You can activate (move) a leader (and some or all of the units in the same territory/sea zone) on any chit draw equal to or less than his initiative rating. Any units activated with a leader must move into the same territory with the leader. Nothing forces you to move and in many instances you may want to wait to see where the enemy moves before you move. On the other hand - leaderless units can only move on the "0" chit draw. If they don't move at that time - they will not for the rest of the combat phase. Hope that is a bit clearer ;D
-
OK - leaders and initiative, simply put: You can activate (move) a leader (and some or all of the units in the same territory/sea zone) on any chit draw equal to or less than his initiative rating. Any units activated with a leader must move into the same territory with the leader. Nothing forces you to move and in many instances you may want to wait to see where the enemy moves before you move. On the other hand - leaderless units can only move on the "0" chit draw. If they don't move at that time - they will not for the rest of the combat phase. Hope that is a bit clearer ;D
So if a leader has a "1" initiative and the "1" chit is drawn as the first one out of the cup, but the player decides to not move that leader.
That player would have to wait until the "0" chit is pulled to move the above mentioned leader, right? And that might not happen until all the other chits are pulled?
Is that part of the decision making process that one must deal with as part of the game?
It is a very interesting system, if that is the case. Makes for some tough choices.
-
Correct and yes. We sometimes find ourselves waiting for the other side to pull a specific chit... 8)
-
Have been away over the long Easter Weekend -
I think John has answered the alternating movement / chit draw questions - but it is perhaps the most different aspect of the game for people to wrap their heads around. We debated keeping it or going back to the standard "you move / I move" turn sequence - but in the end, as people got used to it - the chit system adds so much color and uncertainty to the game we all think it is the best way to go.
So, to answer your question again to make sure it is clear: If you are a "1" initiative leader, you can activate and move only on the "1" chit or on the "0" chit draw. They may come earlier in the turn or later - but they are the only chits that enable you to activate - so you have fewer options as to when you move.
If you are a "4" initiative leader, you can activate on a 0,1,2,3, or 4 chit - so you have the option to move on any chit when it is drawn.
The counter-offensive is to prevent armies from being "pinned" by only 1-2 units attacking them - preventing them from moving. One can declare a counter-offenisve, blow away a small pinning force and still be able to move and attack. It happens rarely in the games we have played - players know if they want to pin an army, they have to commit a big enough force to actually pin it. . .
-
Advanced Struggle for Europe Rules attached
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
What is the difference for a normal general and a general whit (blitz)?
I have read all the rules i dont find this answer. Thanks
-
I find the anwser i read 3 the rules and find.
-
A blitz general can move and accompany units during the mech phase.
-
My Oil rules. every boats, planes and mech units need 1 oil for attack move for one turn. Out of supply no oil of curse. Every nation divide is productions points par two.
The romania and russia oil derrick=plus points of oil production for one turn. The oil derrick on the map is simillar of the industrial complex on the map for upgrade a mini oil derrick of the nation specific is place on the territory for a +2 oisl points for a turn. For the Romanian is a execption the germany historic control the Ploiești oil derrick= germany is able for upgrade the romanian oil field. The Caucasus oil field is russia only for upgrade. The rules is simple but effective and fun.
For more simplicity i use the Attack games Oil money, and track the oil money on the production point income. More a nation cannot stock more that 100 oil point.
For the mechanized movement no more oil point is use. Just for the first part is needed to pay oil point.
-
I like the idea - but just half of a nation's PP may not be the best model. Perhaps each nation should be assigned a base level of oil points and then you get the oil-derrick points x10 on top of that (so, perhaps Germany gets 20 points of oil every turn inherently (mostly synthetic production) and then another 30 points of oil a turn once Romania joins the Axis. You could also give them 10 points of oil from Russia a turn (until at war) to represent the oil germany received from Russia earlier in the war.
I think US oil would be unlimited. Every British convoy point would be worth a PP as well as a oil point. The Soviets were pretty flush with oil - maybe 30 base points + the 100 they have on the map (perhaps this, like their PP needs to be reduced until at war). Italy was very weak on oil - it helped keep their fleet in port for much of the later part of the war.
-
Ok whit you for Us unlimited and for the convoy oil for Uk and Russia, but find the historic quantity of oil all nation in the game have in 1939 whit is production and market and for Germany syntetic is a big job. Is for that reason i pick the half of the pp, is simple but not historic exact but is not complete wrong. But this weekend i search the historic prod and convert for the game.
-
I have find a little information. thanks Wiki Lol
This is just the production not market (Italy).
MaterialsCountry Coal Iron Ore Crude Oil
Soviet Union 590.8 71.3 110.6
United States 2,149.7 396.9 833.2
United Kingdom 1,441.2 119.2 90.8
Canada 101.9 3.6 8.4
Germany 2,420.3 240.7 33.4
Japan 184.5 21.0 5.2
Italy 16.9 4.4
Hungary 6.6 14.1 3.1
Romania 1.6 10.8 25.0
-
Another info
Oil Production In Tons Year
Germany USA
1939 8 million N/A
1940 6.7 million N/A
1941 7.3 million N/A
1942 7.7 million 184 million
1943 8.9 million 200 million
1944 6.4 million 223 million
-
Another text
German Fuel Situation - Pre-World War 2.
Prior to World War 2, Germany was an energy-dependent nation. It depended heavily on foreign fuel imports:
German Fuel Source Million Barrels (Annually)
Domestic Oil Production & 3.8
Synthetic Fuel Production 9.0
Import From Overseas 28.0
Import Overland-Europe 3.8
Total 44.6
German Fuel Stockpile Prior to World War 2. The German stockpile of fuel consisted of only 15 million barrels. Obviously the German situation was precarious for a country about to take on half the world in World War 2.
Germans Expanded Fuel Supply as World War 2 Approaches. The Germans realized the graveness of their fuel situation and took action. Their infamous peace treaty with Russia in 1939 yielded them 4 million barrels of fuel per year (starting in 1940) and the Russians were diligent in delivering the fuel. Imports of oil from Romania was also drastically increased until imports reached 13 million barrels in 1941. The Germans also expanded their own small domestic production of oil and that of Austria which had been annexed by Germany in 1938. By 1944, the total domestic oil production had increased from 3.8 million barrels (1938) to 12 million barrels.
Additionally, about 5 million barrels of fuel were captured during the early military campaigns of World War 2 in western Europe in 1940.
The above increases in fuel obtained from various sources helped but were still inadequate as World War 2 began to place a high demand on German fuel supplies.
Italian
1937 13 million tons 1938 14
-
Long ago i played a axis game with oil rules.. we didn't like it because you have to count so much on your movement.. makes no fun in my opinion :-[
-
In my opinion Darkman if you desire a game whit no constraint play axis and allies you have no oil, no diversity of unit, no time for built unit, no max built of unit and much more a game for a familly is just my opinion. The second Wolrd war is the first oil war and is normal for me this fact is much better represented is this fantastic game. This treat is not marked new rules is just a new rules if the creator of this game love it but if not i a optionnal rule.
-
The final number for Oil with the number in a history game Making History the info in 1939 divide par two for your game the number of your division in your game.
France: product and business= 14 every turn and a stock for the beginning 86 in bank.
Germany: product and business= 35 every turn after poland fall +10 with Russia and a stock for the beginning 100 in bank.
Italy: Product and business= 8 every turn and a stock of 45 in bank.
Japan: product and business= 20 every turn 19 Us business... and a sock of 91 in bank.
Great-Britain: product and business= 25 every turn and a stock of 150 in bank.
United-States: product and business= 217 every turn and a stock of 712 in bank=ilimited.
Russia: product and business= 64 every turn and a stock of 200 in bank.