Forum Index > RULES (UPDATED APRIL 2018)

Victory Conditions

(1/3) > >>

Darkman:
Heya all,

when taking a look at the victory table like the standard game , also the advanced game has some unlucky conditions in my opinion.

I have to say , i'm using the victory table sheet rather than the one printed on the map (john told me it's the updated one)

While i don't have problems with the axis victory condition, i don't like the allied ones.

Looking at winter 1944/45 , spring 45 , and summer 45 the VP counter has to be less than 12,9,6 in order to beat the axis.

Like the orginal game this i a bit too ahistorical for me. You can be better than history but still losing the game ..  thats a small bitter taste :-)

In our last game it's winter 44/45 and the axis have 11 VP points , they would loose the game and there wouldn't be a turn 24. In real there was one as we know, and they did have not that many VP territories (warsaw , budapest and so on) ^^ :-)

I would prefer a change to this

a) Shouldn't we set the vp counter down to what the axis still had in the timeframe? If the axis are weaker than in history they loose , if they are same or only a little better the game goes on.
b) or removing the allied victory conditions , the allies have 25 turns to capture all axis homeland victory points of germany. (we would need a different option for japan tho)


What do you guys think about it?

Animation 1939-45 map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Second_world_war_europe_animation_large_de.gif

John D.:
I'll defer to Mark on this...

Mark:
I think you make a good point with respect to Winter 1944/45 and Spring 1945.  For pretty much all of the other turns the 'beat history' concept works just about right, I think. 

The challenge as you converge to a win or lose finally in Summer 1945 was the design to make the two VPs for both Axis and Allies converge at a pretty even rate through the last turns of the game.  Also, it was important to keep a delta between one side winning and losing wide enough and converging through the last turns of the game as well.  For example, there is a 10 VP margin to keep the game going on turn 20 (16VPs vs. 26 VPs).  This converges to 8 VP gap, 6 VPs, and 3 VPs in the last few turns of the game. - forcing a victor by turn 24 with a 0 VP gap.

There are also a couple things that are not modeled perfectly in the end-game.  Like, in the game, the Germans would never pull out of Athens - there are no partisans.  More likely, in the game, the Germans may fort down in Athens and try to hang onto the VP there at all costs.

Also - I think you need to 'force' the Axis to try to hang on to more VPs than historically late in the game - or else they will just give up places and fall back into 3-4 fortress spaces and try to hang on to the end.  In reality, the Germans fought desperately for places like Budapest, keeping an army in Norway, and launching a huge counter-offensive to try and retake Antwerp.  So, I think the inflated VP level for the Axis late in the game tries to model in that level of desperation a little bit and also try to stop the Axis from 'gaming' the system and just falling back to rapidly and not fighting for some of these locations.

That being said, I am up for making adjustments to the game - one of the great things about it is we can take ideas from people around the World and implement them.  Can you propose a VP table that you think works better and post it here?

thanks,
mark

Darkman:
I will try to think about a different VP table for consideration..

on the other side stalin always feared that the allies would consider a peace agreement with the axis until the conference in yalta feb 1945 (winter turn 44/45) . the decided together that the only option is a unconditional surrender of the axis.

No World War 1 ending again!

For me the best option would be a total occupation of the german victory points in these last turns (winter 44 , spring 45, summer 45)  The axis wouldn't fortify athen too much because it would be useless as it was in that timeframe.. No they would secure the homeland at all cost!

We just would need a new end for japan.. mabye on end of summer 45 if japan not reaching enough VP , they surrender

Darkman:
How about

 

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page